I can't solve this problem... Acoustic guitar still sound on Electric's patch!

[JfT]

Hi guys!

I have this fantastic tool for about 2 1/2 years and now I have a weird problem that I can't resolve. First, I tried this tutorial http://axefxtutorials.com/2011/12/using-2-guitars-with-1-axe-fx/ without succes... in fact, on one side (acoustic patch) works but not in the other (electric patch)... I gonna explain...

I'm working on my patches for a tour session and I must be able to switch from electric to acoustic in the same song (with my acoustic on an stand)... this must be fast so I need to push a scene and presto! .

I have an acoustic preset done and is OK (using a volume block with the Input Select "Right Only" on it). Acoustic is connected on "Input 1 R" (Rear input) and when I play my electric doesn't sound in the patch. Great!

Now, on my electric patches I'm using a volume block as well but "Left Only" (electric on front input, but the way) and the problem comes. My acoustic don't have "volume controls" so is straight to the piezo and when I touch the strings sounds like the "reverb" of the patch "filtered" into. It's not a full "acoustic guitar" sound, just de "gain" or something of that electric patch (or reverb... I don't know hehe). In resume, my acoustic SOUND'S on the electric patch.

Because I need to switch guitar fast I need that when I'm on the electric patch my acoustic must be completly OFF. What can I do?

For your info. electric is hard panned to left and acoustic to right (FOH independent signals). Here are the patches .

Thanks!!

Javier.

 

[Moke]

Is your input 1 mode set to 'stereo' in the I/O menu? On the electric preset the output panning does not work here because of the FX Loop block, what do you have connected? You mentioned 'scenes' but I see no scenes set up for this? But that is possible if CPU permits, I do it all of the time, completely seamless.

What firmware are you on?

 

[simeon]

i've noticed some "crosstalk" between the inputs too. i think that's what it is. a small amount of signal from input 1 right leaking into input 1 left

one way round it may be to use input 2 for the acoustic and place an fxl block in the patch to act as the input source for that signal. if however, you're using out 2 as well as out 1, then that won't work.

one other option would be to place an analog volume pedal or kill switch between the output of the acoustic guitar and the input of the axe fx

 

[Moke]

Without anything plugged into the FX Loop, the 'Acustica (L)' preset comes out of both outputs here. I have to set 'Pan 2' in the FX Loop block to the right then it works? And why the (L) in the name when the input and output are right?

The electric Preset seems set up ok (as long as your input 1 mode set to 'stereo' in the I/O menu). The parallel reverb mix level seems wrong to me? And the dual output paths coming out of the reverb block seems redundant?

Any 'crosstalk' at the inputs is hardware related and unfortunate.

Maybe a midi controlled A/B box to mute the acoustic guitar right before the Axe FX??
http://www.soundsculpture.com/abcadabra

 

[chris]

It's most likely the Noise Gate in the Input block. You have to turn that off (ratio to 1).

With the acoustic playing, it opens the noise gate for the electric side (shared) and that path's noise is heard. It really is a strange thing.

Turn off the Input gate and add a gate block to your electric row. Or you can use the FX Loop block and input 2 for your acoustic and avoid the gate and volume block things.

Hopefully that does it. If I misread something and this doesn't solve it, let me know.

 

[Moke]

It's most likely the Noise Gate in the Input block. You have to turn that off (ratio to 1).

With the acoustic playing, it opens the noise gate for the electric side (shared) and that path's noise is heard. It really is a strange thing.

Turn off the Input gate and add a gate block to your electric row. Or you can use the FX Loop block and input 2 for your acoustic and avoid the gate and volume block things.

Hopefully that does it. If I misread something and this doesn't solve it, let me know.

Hey Chris, He doesn't have a dual path. 2 separate presets, 1 for electric and 1 for acoustic. The electric preset looks right. but he's still getting some acoustic (input 1 right) bleeding through?

 

[JfT]

Hi!

About your questions:

Moke
1.- Input 1 mode is Stereo
2.- The FXLoop block is there so I can hear my acoustic through "Out 2 L" that going to my monitor (was the only solution I found for that! )
3.- I meant "preset" when I wrote "Scene"... Maybe I do a preset for both at same time but I prefer separate patches first .
4.- Quantum 1.04
5.- Yes, in "acustica" patch you will hear both channels at least you turn the balance to right at the end of the row (OUTPUT). Electric patch is panned left. FXLoop is as it is, nothing has been changed.
6.- About the "reverb" thing I saw that's the way to use parallel blocks (if I wrong please let me know! hehe).
7.- Moke, the "(L)" is for (L)IVE PATCH haha... sorry

Simeon
I don't want to use Input 2 because I lost the possibility to use Out 2 for my monitor... As you said .

I'm using a volume pedal to cut my acoustic but I need something simpler because I know that I'm goin to forget to turn the pedal down in the gig when I need it hahaha

Chris
Chris is something like that!. The guitar (or strings) doesn't sound... is just a "Phhhshh" like of sound, like a gate but I turn off the Input gate (Threshold OFF and Ratio 1) and doesn't work .

Here's an example... I'm strumming chords. In a live situation could probably generate unwanted feedback (and noise of course).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/78x1f9kgajy5e8r/Acoustic problem on electric patch.mp3?dl=0

Thanks!

 

[chris]

Hey Chris, He doesn't have a dual path. 2 separate presets, 1 for electric and 1 for acoustic. The electric preset looks right. but he's still getting some acoustic (input 1 right) bleeding through?

Ohh! I'll try to check out presets later

 

[RoshRoslin]

I ran into this issue with Def Leppard (when I was working on their rigs) as well. Instead of switching between electric and acoustic, we had Vivian Campbell's guitars set up with a Piezo and two wireless packs (1 for electric side, 1 for acoustic/piezo side).

In the end, instead of dividing the signal path, we had 1 signal path and we used 1 preset with two scenes that would turn on and off a Tone match and an EQ block and bypass the amp block and other effects. The tone match in Def Leppard's case were the intros for Hysteria and Foolin', you don't have to use a tone match unless you have an acoustic sample you like that you want sent to Foh

Scene 1: Electric side with amp and cab blocks and effects needed
Scene 2: Bypass EVERYTHING, and engage tone match, compressor, reverb.

This involves going through the same input. You can use a A/B box or something instead. Personally, this would be faster and a lot less involved.

 

[chris]

Side note - that is SO COOL that historic artists use tone matching (and the axe) to recreate their own classic tones!

 

[yek]

The separate Gate block is using the side-chain signal at Input 1 to measure. Probably won't help but try setting it to Block.

To find the problem, I would strip the preset to the bare essentials. No attached controller in VOL, no Comp, Drive etc.

Just AMP and CAB, and start from there. Move AMP to the first column and set Input Select in the AMP block to Left.

 

[RoshRoslin]

Side note - that is SO COOL that historic artists use tone matching (and the axe) to recreate their own classic tones!

Yeah. It's such a great feature. The comical part that I enjoyed most was having my muso tube-amp die-hard friends CONVINCED that it was a backing track or something when we went to one of their concerts.

"You can't make a Les Paul sound like that!"
"With an AxeFX you can **Grin** "

 

[JfT]

The separate Gate block is using the side-chain signal at Input 1 to measure. Probably won't help but try setting it to Block.

To find the problem, I would strip the preset to the bare essentials. No attached controller in VOL, no Comp, Drive etc.

Just AMP and CAB, and start from there. Move AMP to the first column and set Input Select in the AMP block to Left.

Definitely is the Gate Block. Yek when I select "Block L+R" is like not using it... but you don't get that "phhhshh" (like if I bypass the block).

Mmmm would be cool find a fix for that... that's why on "acustica" have no problems. Right now I put a Drive Block (because is noisy) on "acustica" and a Gate Block and have the same problem but backwards (Electric leak on acoustic patch ).

By the way Yek, I tried AMP, DRIVE and CAB "left only" on input select but nothing change... is the gate.

I really like the gate block after amp because cleans a lot of noise, would be sad get rid of that.

Thanks!

(Cool, Vivian had the same problem as me hehehe )

 

[Orbm1]

Although I'm just still learning the Axe-FX, I agree with this solution. You can still have two guitars, one connected to A in your AB box and the other to B. Switch guitars and activate the desired channel and also press a new scene/preset, you are set.

Any particular reason you want to do two different inputs?

I ran into this issue with Def Leppard (when I was working on their rigs) as well. Instead of switching between electric and acoustic, we had Vivian Campbell's guitars set up with a Piezo and two wireless packs (1 for electric side, 1 for acoustic/piezo side).

In the end, instead of dividing the signal path, we had 1 signal path and we used 1 preset with two scenes that would turn on and off a Tone match and an EQ block and bypass the amp block and other effects. The tone match in Def Leppard's case were the intros for Hysteria and Foolin', you don't have to use a tone match unless you have an acoustic sample you like that you want sent to Foh

Scene 1: Electric side with amp and cab blocks and effects needed
Scene 2: Bypass EVERYTHING, and engage tone match, compressor, reverb.

This involves going through the same input. You can use a A/B box or something instead. Personally, this would be faster and a lot less involved.

 

[Bakerman]

Definitely is the Gate Block. Yek when I select "Block L+R" is like not using it...

Did you adjust any other gate parameters? If not, this can be expected since the detector signal has gone through an amp block. It's noisier at that point and likely stays above the threshold.

Here's how to use a post-amp gate, sidechained to elec. input signal:

1. Disable the input block gate by setting threshold to "OFF".

2. Set GATE/EXP block SCSEL parameter to "ROW 1".

3. Create a sidechain (shunts) in row 1 from Vol/Pan to Gate.

4. Increase GATE/EXP block THRESHOLD parameter by 6 dB. This will gate like before, minus the issue of acoustic signal opening gate.

 

[JfT]

I need 2 signal for the sound guy so he can manage the mix if necessary. That's all
Thanks bakerman, I will check that configuration

 

[JfT]

Did you adjust any other gate parameters? If not, this can be expected since the detector signal has gone through an amp block. It's noisier at that point and likely stays above the threshold.

Here's how to use a post-amp gate, sidechained to elec. input signal:

1. Disable the input block gate by setting threshold to "OFF".

2. Set GATE/EXP block SCSEL parameter to "ROW 1".

3. Create a sidechain (shunts) in row 1 from Vol/Pan to Gate.

4. Increase GATE/EXP block THRESHOLD parameter by 6 dB. This will gate like before, minus the issue of acoustic signal opening gate.

Here's the solution!!

Fantastic Bakerman, appreciate your time... this is just what I needed. I'm going to test if there's a problem but as I see this is perfect.

Good job and thanks!!

 

[yek]

Definitely is the Gate Block. Yek when I select "Block L+R" is like not using it... but you don't get that "phhhshh" (like if I bypass the block).

Mmmm would be cool find a fix for that... that's why on "acustica" have no problems. Right now I put a Drive Block (because is noisy) on "acustica" and a Gate Block and have the same problem but backwards (Electric leak on acoustic patch ).

By the way Yek, I tried AMP, DRIVE and CAB "left only" on input select but nothing change... is the gate.

I really like the gate block after amp because cleans a lot of noise, would be sad get rid of that.

Okay, good to have found the cause.

And great advice, Bakerman.

Still doesn't explain though how signal from the other guitar did leak in, with VOL set to one side.
Are you sure that it really is signal from the other guitar / input?
Isn't it just noise?

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Wait a second... you say the signal bleeding in from your acoustic guitar sounds reverb-ish and that it doesn't have a volume control?

Where exactly is your acoustic guitar placed when you play the electric? Near the speakers maybe? Have you tried wrapping a hairband around the neck when you put the acoustic away, just to rule out acoustic feedback?

 

[JfT]

Okay, good to have found the cause.

And great advice, Bakerman.

Still doesn't explain though how signal from the other guitar did leak in, with VOL set to one side.
Are you sure that it really is signal from the other guitar / input?
Isn't it just noise?

Yes Yek, I'm pretty sure. I think that because both signals (left and right) pass through the first input gate (layout) not differentiate "what I want to use or not" so the input gate activate on both (L&R). So, if I turn OFF that gate and used the method Barkerman's has said just eliminate the signal of the right side (acoustic)... Now I don't know how that works, but it works

Bye!