I can’t find a decent overdrive tone

Jumpback said:
Im an old guy too, and finally just bought the Live Gold pack and for me, its the sound I love! Every amp has a Drive option and are so good sounding and just smile as I play any of them, highly recommend
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The Austin Buddy gold pack?
 
Tommymo said:
Usually I have Amp+cab+drive+ reverb then delay and modulation
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Don't put the drive after the amp+cab.

Think of the modeler as a virtual pedalboard, amp and cabinet and microphone, that feed into a console in a studio where you have outboard time-based effects like delays, chorus, flanger, and reverb.

Just as you could change the order of the pedals on the board to have different sounds, you can do that with pedal blocks in the modeler, however some, mostly the time-based effects, usually sound best after the amp, and things like drives, phaser, wah go in front of it. Obviously you can change the order however you like, but generally following how we'd do it with traditional equipment on stage or in a studio works best.

Putting the drive after the cab will sound... um... suboptimal, because the cab is adjusting the EQ to make the amp sound like it's running through the speakers. A drive typically adds a lot of high-end distortion which the amp and cab would filter out. You're allowing all that high-end distortion to be passed on, so no wonder it sounds bad.

In real life that'd probably blow the drive pedal, maybe even the output transformer, if it was hooked to the amp's speaker output or put in parallel with the speaker.

Again, nothing says you HAVE to put those blocks in a specific order, and your ears have to guide you, but think about it as if it's a real pedalboard and amp in a studio situation and you'll find it easier to get sounds you like. Take a look at how the factory presets are configured and follow their lead.
 
Tommymo said:
No I have a cab and it’s on. I wonder if it matters where the drive is in the chain of blocks. Usually I have Amp+cab+drive+ reverb then delay and modulation
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The drive should be placed in "front" of the amp since you want it to "drive" your amp :)

However, you can always place it wherever you want in the tonal path, and you might come up with something unique if it is after the amp, but it usually sounds best in front of the amp and ALWAYS before the cab.

Basically, I had repeated what Greg Ferguson had said here (I didn't know it until I posted, lol), so I deleted most of it :)

Suggestions:

You should adjust the settings of the specific pedal and amp until they work well with each other similar to what you would do with one of your pedals and amp.

Also, you would probably need to adjust them again for a different guitar since your pickups affect the way they work together as well.

In the past, I would copy the preset to a new location, then I would adjust it for the new guitar, but these days we have the Channel A-D and Scenes options, so you could make it all change within one preset.

If you want to keep it simple then just copy the preset and adjust everything in the new preset for the new guitar.

You can always think of it this way:

A new guitar should have it's own preset :)
 
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Greg Ferguson said:
Don't put the drive after the amp+cab.

Think of the modeler as a virtual pedalboard, amp and cabinet and microphone, that feed into a console in a studio where you have outboard time-based effects like delays, chorus, flanger, and reverb.

Just as you could change the order of the pedals on the board to have different sounds, you can do that with pedal blocks in the modeler, however some, mostly the time-based effects, usually sound best after the amp, and things like drives, phaser, wah go in front of it. Obviously you can change the order however you like, but generally following how we'd do it with traditional equipment on stage or in a studio works best.

Putting the drive after the cab will sound... um... suboptimal, because the cab is adjusting the EQ to make the amp sound like it's running through the speakers. A drive typically adds a lot of high-end distortion which the amp and cab would filter out. You're allowing all that high-end distortion to be passed on, so no wonder it sounds bad.

In real life that'd probably blow the drive pedal, maybe even the output transformer, if it was hooked to the amp's speaker output or put in parallel with the speaker.

Again, nothing says you HAVE to put those blocks in a specific order, and your ears have to guide you, but think about it as if it's a real pedalboard and amp in a studio situation and you'll find it easier to get sounds you like. Take a look at how the factory presets are configured and follow their lead.
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Wow do I feel a bit stupid for not looking at it that way. Thanks very much for this input.
 
Tommymo said:
Wow [...]
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Don't feel too bad.

Modelers are a major paradigm shift from our traditional setups, and have a major learning curve because, while guitars, pedals and amps are very hands on due to their fun little dials we can turn, the nitty-gritty is hidden. Most people never dive into what makes their gear work but a good modeler exposes all those inner workings... and Fractal makes extraordinary modelers with depth and control that'll make your head spin.

The result is that where we could get away with knowing a little, with a Fractal FM3 or FX3, FX2 or AX8, you're going to have to learn about the various components in your pedals and what changing them out will do. Similarly, you'll learn about your tube amp's design and what tweaks are available, with your cabinets you'll be exposed to speaker swaps, mic choice and placement, on and on with flangers, chorus, delays and reverb. But the good thing is, you can experiment and tinker and you won't let the smoke out of the circuit. You might, probably, will make some horrible sounds, but you can undo your changes, you can save what worked before you tweak and revert, you can reload from the factory preset you used as your starting point, all the while gaining knowledge.

It's quite a grand adventure.
 
I feel your pain on the drives; they're fine, but I've had a tough time getting an OD that feels like more of the amp without adding too much [insert colorful descriptors here]. I'm sure there's some obscure setting I can change to get better results, but as it stands in my use now, I usually just use channels on the amp block to get an overdrive tone. As far as the drives go, I've had the best luck with the FAS Boost.

May be worth swapping to a different amp, as well. Some can be, set in specific ways, on the fuzzier side, like the tweeds. Your IR could also be influencing that fuzzy tone as well, so when you throw that OD in front of the amp, it's amplifying a sound already present in the IR that you maybe weren't noticing as much when it was clean.
 
zseelye said:
I feel your pain on the drives; they're fine, but I've had a tough time getting an OD that feels like more of the amp without adding too much [insert colorful descriptors here]. I'm sure there's some obscure setting I can change to get better results, but as it stands in my use now, I usually just use channels on the amp block to get an overdrive tone. As far as the drives go, I've had the best luck with the FAS Boost.

May be worth swapping to a different amp, as well. Some can be, set in specific ways, on the fuzzier side, like the tweeds. Your IR could also be influencing that fuzzy tone as well, so when you throw that OD in front of the amp, it's amplifying a sound already present in the IR that you maybe weren't noticing as much when it was clean.
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Hey thanks for this. Some people get a little defensive when you shoot down aspects of the Fm3. I mean I am used to playing with a decent od / distortion pedal so I know what I like and what sounds good
 
zseelye said:
I feel your pain on the drives; they're fine, but I've had a tough time getting an OD that feels like more of the amp without adding too much [insert colorful descriptors here]. I'm sure there's some obscure setting I can change to get better results, but as it stands in my use now, I usually just use channels on the amp block to get an overdrive tone. As far as the drives go, I've had the best luck with the FAS Boost.

May be worth swapping to a different amp, as well. Some can be, set in specific ways, on the fuzzier side, like the tweeds. Your IR could also be influencing that fuzzy tone as well, so when you throw that OD in front of the amp, it's amplifying a sound already present in the IR that you maybe weren't noticing as much when it was clean.
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This is really dependent on the drive type. Except for a clean boost type, you typically don't get a "more of the Amp" effect because that's not what they're designed to do. Either the modeled versions or the real thing. They typically add distortion and pre-EQ.

For what you're after the FAS Boost is a good one, as are RCB, Micro Boost, FET Boost and SDD Drive.

Also you might try playing with the Mix control.
 
Tommymo said:
I just can’t seem to get any good overdrive tones on my FM3. The closest thing to half decent would be the Timothy drive but I just feel like all the drive options are fuzz like and don’t emulate a sound like a tube amp. I am resolved to using my Strymon Sunset in front of the FM3 Any suggestions for a good overdrive setting? I know it also has a lot to do with my guitar which is a Strat ( both single coils and a humbucker)
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Did you find a good overdrive? Will get a FM3 in a week or so. I dont want to be disappointed. Threads like this scares me.
 
jlynnb1 said:
you won't be, as his experience is fairly unique and seems to be due to user error.
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Haha. I dont think it’s user error. I think it’s what you like and what sounds good to each individual here. Which means it is purely subjective. The pedal does most effects really well. And it’s worth every penny. People on here get defensive when I said the drives are not good or to my liking , although for most users they like the drives. “ to each their own”
 
Ok ok. I’m starting to like a few drives now. I will admit that I posted the original thread in haste This pedal is really a tweakers pedal ( or nightmare)
 
Tommymo said:
Haha. I dont think it’s user error. I think it’s what you like and what sounds good to each individual here. Which means it is purely subjective. The pedal does most effects really well. And it’s worth every penny. People on here get defensive when I said the drives are not good or to my liking , although for most users they like the drives. “ to each their own”
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The configuration Amp+cab+drive is user error. Unless you really want to sound nasty

You would get the same experience using the real pedals with a real amplifier. They can be very nasty, unless the planets are correctly aligned (starting with placing the drive BEFORE the amp :oops:)
 
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