How's my mixing?

That sounds great. How the hell do they get a mix like that? I mean, granted im using Addictive Drums, but the rest of it... how do they get it to sound so full?

By the way, Just tried recording four guitars instead of two. Not gonna bother posting it cause its a huge fucking mess and didnt work. So more guitars is NOT the answer.
 
MetalGarret said:
That sounds great. How the hell do they get a mix like that? I mean, granted im using Addictive Drums, but the rest of it... how do they get it to sound so full?

By the way, Just tried recording four guitars instead of two. Not gonna bother posting it cause its a huge fucking mess and didnt work. So more guitars is NOT the answer.
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I agree. Plenty of guitar there.

From a listeners standpoint, #6 sounds better to me. But the whole thing is subjective anyway. It's your creation. Everyone else is just an opinion. For me, I could "head bob" to this.

This is probably an ubër naive question, but I wonder if you could publish the raw tracks so others could mix it. Just a thought...

Disclaimer: I am not an engineer. Ted Nugent screwed that up years ago. ;)
 
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Yeah, the last one #6 is really going in the wrong direction for me. It's very muddy and dark. The #5 take wasn't bad. I don't think you need more guitar tracks just wanted to hear the 2 tracks more evenly mixed and brought back in the mix more. It also helps when tracking to make each track a little different sounding. So the first guitar track is brighter and the 2nd is a little fuller and darker maybe. This really helps thicken them up. I think if you went back to #5 and just brought the bass guitar up more, you'd be sitting pretty good. #2 sounded good too but the guitars were just way too on top of the mix and the bass guitar was basically missing. Toms are a little loud on #5 too.

Here is a good tutorial on this type of music mixing. He has a couple of instructional videos on mixing drums, bass and guitar in this style. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WLhv0rId5k
Bass Guitar recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mol6awk_aDo Notice how loud and deep the bass is compared to yours.
Drum tracks using Superior Drummer 2.0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mol6awk_aDohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mol6awk_aDo

It's almost impossible mixing via a bulletin board, but these are my suggestions and only my opinions. I was a recording engineer for a few years but haven't done too much in the way of mixing lately.
 
MetalGarret said:
That sounds great. How the hell do they get a mix like that? I mean, granted im using Addictive Drums, but the rest of it... how do they get it to sound so full?

By the way, Just tried recording four guitars instead of two. Not gonna bother posting it cause its a huge fucking mess and didnt work. So more guitars is NOT the answer.
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I'd like to hear the mix anyway, might be able to figure out where you're going wrong.

The mix itself doesn't sound bad in any way. It's definitely on the thin side of things, but it's completely and totally listenable.

To start with... I'm no engineer, nor am I that good a guitarist... But I'll offer some tricks I've picked up along the way.

But if you want to thicken things up I'd suggest you start from the bottom. The bass just isn't there. All I'm hearing from the bass is top end. You're missing all that low end that will help support your guitar riffs and thicken the overall tone. Most of the top end that is currently there can get cut off as it's sitting in guitar territory right now.

When EQing your bass tones... Do NOT listen/EQ to it on it's own. Solo'd bass tracks often sound awful, but fit perfectly in the entire mix.

Addictive Drums... Are you using a custom preset? I've found many of the stock presets need some tweaking before they're usable. The defaults tend to take up too much space in a mix. Usually the cymbals are a problem. The first thing I do with a preset is to make sure the cymbals are panned quite far to each side, then I usually shorten their decay. From there I usually knock a couple DB off the room/OH mics. Either way, listen to your mix with AD on then with it off. If everything becomes clearer and fuller with the drums muted then you'll probably have to play with them a little more.

Guitars... Usually if I'm only using two tracks I'll have one EQ'd to take care of the highs and upper mids, and one guitar to take care of the lows and lower mids. It seems like what you've done is basically use two bright guitar tracks and combined them to make an even brighter guitar sound. If you're currently EQing them the same, try leaving all that treble in one, but knocking it out on the other and bumping up the lows and the lower mids slightly on the other.

When I record 4 guitar tracks I use a similar approach. Two brighter guitars two darker ones. To avoid the slop what I'll usually do is just record each tone once and then double it. So both bright guitars are the same recording both dark guitars are the same recording. Then generally I'll put a slight time offset on the copied tracks of 0.01-0.1s to give it some space. From there you just have to tweak the levels and panning until things sound right.

Speaking of doubling things. This works well on the bass too. If you've got a thin bass track, duplicate it and add a slight time offset. If you feel your bass is lacking top end, instead of brightening up or thinning out your bass, duplicate your track then pitch shift it up an octave and layer the two together.

A mastering tool like Izotope Ozone can really help liven things up.
 
Ozone. I so want it.

Four guitars in prog rock seems like too much work. The clips I've been posting are only a couple minutes long. But the full song itself is 11:30! On top of there's some fast picking in places and to get that exact on 4 guitars is a nightmare. I'll try EQing them differently first.

Last night I just realized that yeah the cymbals need to be panned better along with the toms and perhaps also the toms need better velocity. I also have Superior Drummer but I didn't quite like the snares and kicks on it. I'll watch the vid anyway tho. Im sure it'll come in handy. Thanks!

I'll see about posting the raw tracks. May have to do it later cause I got work soon. I'll let ya know.
 
Well it's good to know I'm on the right track.

https://soundcloud.com/soleparadigm/manifesto-eq-test-9

I cleaned it up a bit and dropped some mud a TAD. You should still hear plenty of low end but not so muddy.

Added some automation where the strings come in. The guitars drop a Db or 2 when they come in then hop back up after. Sounds a bit cleaner.

Im Hoping you can still hear plenty of low end and didnt drop too much. I'm almost ready to mix this album.
 
Massive improvement.

The cymbals could still use some work. Panning, faster decay less volume and maybe EQing as they sound a bit papery. It might just be my ears, but I find that they're really grating. The rest of the drum kit sounds great though.

Other than that I think the intro synth could be adjusted a tad. It's slightly loud and panning wise it sounds like it's on the outside of the guitars. Personally I would have the guitars on the outside and the synth closer to the center as it's got more of a vocal quality to it. Either that or experiment with the guitars being slightly louder on one side and the synth slightly louder on the other.

But at this point it's just nitpicking.
 
I think it's the mixing of the drums that's the problem really. I just remixed it and it sound better. Still working out the kinks. It doesnt help that Addictive Drums wont let me pan the damn cymbals! GRrrr!
 
Midiot said:
just my opinion.i only listen to 9

the keys are way too loud and I say turn up your guitars :)
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Im with ya on the guitars. I bumped them :)

https://soundcloud.com/soleparadigm/manifesto-eq-test-10

Remixed the drums to be a little more forward. Still havent repanned them. I gotta load up FL studio and redo them and then re-import them to do it right so that's gonna take a little time. I'm debating whether or not to turn down the kicks. I like the boom they provide without completely overtaking anything. Could always automate if I need. I might need Sonnox's Reverb here. It'd do me some good. Might be willing to spend the money there.

The orchestra in the beginning still needs fixing. Later on I plan to have the strings a little more prominent (and more realistic sounding). The keys aren't that overpowering. I might turn them down a db next mix but theyre not terrible.

I gotta say, so far this is my better mix and It's almost right where I want it. I'm comparing it to other studio mixes and it's really close.
 
MetalGarret said:
I think it's the mixing of the drums that's the problem really. I just remixed it and it sound better. Still working out the kinks. It doesnt help that Addictive Drums wont let me pan the damn cymbals! GRrrr!
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Yes you can. Go into the edit tab of AD. At the top right in the sampler section you'll see buttons for each piece in your kit. From there you can adjust the volume and pan of each piece as you hear them from both the overhead mic and the room mic.
 
https://soundcloud.com/soleparadigm/manifesto-eq-test-11

Drums are panned better here. The only little nitpick I have with them now is the toms. They sound good, but was hoping to get them to sound more dramatic. like this: Dream Theater - On The Backs Of Angels - Drums Stem - YouTube (@1:17). If not, well you can only go with what you have. Still aiming to get Sonnox's Reverb plugin for the drums. Still not digging the rennaisance verb.

Thanks for your help, everybody! Gonna work on the strings next then this mix should be good. Until I can add vocals that is. :)
 
Mixes sound good.

What are you using to compress the master bus? It sounds like just some limiting to get it louder in volume. Maybe try a "glue" type compressor like SSL's Gcomp or my personal fav tape emulation PSP Vintage Warmer2. That will help make everything move together a little more. Things are only "breathing" on the kicks right now.

The snare, for me, needs more weight to match the kick. I tend to solo out the kit to do this balancing.

There is also a lack of ambience for me that is making everything sound a little disjointed. Please, no body flame me on this, but SOMETIMES adding reverb, in parallel, to the entire mix and brutally cutting the lows/low mids out and blending to taste will add some needed cohesion. This can work, but not on everything, and if you leave the lows itll just be a mess.

One thing to try is, if your going for CD volume, if mixing into a good limiter. It will give you a better idea of whats off in your frequency balance. I REALLY LOVE Slates FG-X plugin for master limiting! Just had to add that as it has become my go to for metal.
 
By SSL's GComp do you mean their master buss compressor? SSL G-Master Buss Compressor Plugin | Waves That's all I could find on google anyway. The warmer 2 looks affordable. So I can slap these on the drums and they will sound warmer or even punchier? Or do I need it on the master track? I'll grab a demo when I get home from work.

The drums do have paraelell verb on them. Maybe its not noticable enough.

As far as the Master track, All I have on their Right now is the Massey L2007 limiter which is very handy. I'm not sure if louder is necessary but I think I can do it without degrading the mix.
 
The reason i asked about the limiter is because the kick is distorting the track slightly and it's the only element of the drums that is making the track move. Its because the low energy is choking the L2007. I love that liter but I also find that like most BW limiters it crushes the snare and makes it sound thin. Kind of like the crack of the top mic is missing and your getting all bottom snares. That's why I really like the fg-x. You don't have to go super loud with it, but to me it leaves your mix most intact. Your balance doesn't fall apart like with the ozone limiter or the L2007.
 
You don't like Ozone? Even Pensado boosts Ozone.

I think the distorting kick is actually it's EQ maybe. Cause I tried something interesting with it. Scooped the mids a bunch to let the lows flow through and peaked a little of the highs around 4k and 8k for attack. Maybe I EQed it too much?

that FG-X sounds appealing. I'll demo it when I get home. I do feel like the mix is a little the opposite of glued together. I also have some compressors that came with the Waves Gold Bundle that I could try first. Chances are though I'll add to my plugin library.
 
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