Howling Feedback on High Gain amps problem AXE MK II

Re Out 1 being full and using the matrix level control as a MV is common, There are never clip lights coming on the matrix, Its 500 watts into a 4 ohm Matrix cab
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The Matrix doesn't have clip lights.

Nothing wrong with using the Matrix's level control for volume, but when you run the Axe's output wide open, you risk clipping the input of your power amp, even if you're not running at max volume.

I'll have a look at your preset.
 
Here is the updated preset without global blocks. I actually removed Amp 2 from convenience, as my Amp 1 is the high gain amp.
Okay, I got your preset running (the cab was still linked to a global; I had to return it to default settings, because it was attenuating 80 dB of the signal).

You have Input Drive set above 8. That's very aggressive for the 5153 Red. With Master Volume set to 7, your overall amp gain is well into "insane." There's so much amp gain that, when I strum hard, there's almost zero audible effect when I kick in the Drive block.

Back the MV down to somewhere around 3 or 4 (use your ears), and listen as your tone shakes off the wool and shows its teeth (you'll have to adjust the Amp block's Level control to compensate for the loss in volume). Doing that—and turning down the Axe's Output knob (you're slamming the Matrix's input)—will go a long way toward fixing that howl.
 
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I'll add my $0.02 to what Rex said..... At higher volumes you need less gain than you might think. Drop the amp master volume to around 4, raise the amp 'level' to around -10 to compensate. I would raise the 'high cut' in the cab block all the way up to sound more like a mic'd up guitar amp and cut through the mix better? Set your bypass mode on all series delay effects to 'mute fx in' to preserve the spillover between scenes. Also attach your modifiers to the 'input gain' in the delay/reverb blocks to preserve the delay/reverb tails and your dry signal, because some of the other delay block types (Multi-Delay, Megatap Delay, and Reverb) use a different dry/wet mix law and raising the mix will lower your dry level even when that block is bypassed.
 
Can't find it right now - but Cliff once said that turning the output on the axe all the way up like that causes issues. I'd leave that at noon and use the volume on your amp.
 
I believe Kevinerror is correct, you should never need the Axe II's outputs past noon, from what Cliff was saying so try putting the outputs at noon or below and then try again..
 
The Matrix doesn't have clip lights.

Nothing wrong with using the Matrix's level control for volume, but when you run the Axe's output wide open, you risk clipping the input of your power amp, even if you're not running at max volume.

I'll have a look at your preset.

This.

Sounds like you are clipping the inputs on the Matrix. You'll have plenty of volume from 1 o clock onwards on the amp. Just turn up more on the Matrix and less on the Fractal and then follow the other patch related guidlines to get the gate/gain set up nicely.
 
LOL at the whacking your rack with thousands of $$ of gear in it....

I agree with everyone else.
Use the volume on the axe to set the signal level.

In my experince the only time you run it max is with 4CM
 
Definitely turn down the OUT1 of Axe Fx (9-12 O'clock usual) and let the power amp work a bit more. BTW no microphonic PU squeal in there. Possible your 19' case is causing resonance at the chosen volume (rare but all equipement is so damn close to each other). Did you try with the Axe Fx demounted from the rack and simply posed on the rack (just for testing). Put down gate and high gain as suggested before.
 
<Crazy-high amp gain> plus <Axe-Fx output knob dimed> plus <power amp set way above noon> plus <wicked room volume> plus <speaker next to amp> plus <small room> equals <feedback>.
 
LOL at the whacking your rack with thousands of $$ of gear in it....

I agree with everyone else.
Use the volume on the axe to set the signal level.

In my experince the only time you run it max is with 4CM
Yeah, real world testing! hehe... True about 4CM, i used that method for a while with my real 5153 50watt, which still sounds better straight in, tons of controlled gain on the Blue..
 
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I've applied everyone's tips to a degree and there is an improvement. I'll only know for sure at rehearsal later this week but I can go louder than before without howling now (ie: bash my rack with Axe and matrix dimed with no howling, its a good real world test!)

So: using Out 1 as my overall volume, backed amp gain to 5 or 6 (that was hard), using the boost switch as suggested by REDD. I remember reading something Cliff wrote about Amps reacting differently (fuller) when the MV is cranked up, so that's why i had that there, sounded fine at reasonable volume, not so much LOUD, especially the 5150 Red :(:p

I dialled up a 5153 Blue 50w as another option which is great and not as out of control as the Red. Again thanks to everyone for chiming in, rock on! :D
 
I remember reading something Cliff wrote about Amps reacting differently (fuller) when the MV is cranked up, so that's why i had that there, sounded fine at reasonable volume, not so much LOUD, especially the 5150 Red :(:p
As you turn up MV, the sound gets fatter...until you reach a certain point. Then it gets flubby. With high-gain amps, that usually happens at around 3 or 4.
 
Ok, so after doing 2 gigs this month i'm no closer to solving my problem. My high gain block is a 5153 Blue and a 5150 Red, and if i stop playing in between chords or during a solo, hello low mid howling feedback sound! Those MV's are backed off between 4 and 5 as per your recommendations, and my Input gains back to around 5 or 6, which is ok for an AC/DC tone, but its just not enough vibe and gain for the Zakk Wylde / De Martini gain vibe i'm going for.

My real 5153 50 watt head gives me that vibe straight away at high volume with NO howling or feedback. My workaround for the Axe FX is surfing the my volume block with a mission pedal during the gig to stop the howling , but its plain annoying and distracts me from actually playing guitar. I have a gate block, but in order to get rid of the howl it also takes away all sustain, chokes the crap out of the sound.

I can also solve the problem by backing off the volume anywhere in the chain (Amp Input Gain, Amp MV, Amp block level, Matrix power amp level, its all the same), but then the high gain tones are not loud enough on stage. Turn up the matrix, howling returns!

I tried lowering my DC-30 level and levelling up the 5150's, made no diff, the high gain tones just wont behave at a decent gig volume. In the studio thru my Focal speakers, never any feedback. For cleans and Mid gain, i'm using the DC-30 amp model (Matchless), in the same gig preset, and it sounds amazing loud.

At this point i'm scratching my head thinking that the axe fx for live use on stage is no good for high gain at a decent gig volume in a rock band. Tonights settings were Axe Out 1 on 5, Matrix up around 75%, Axe VU meters always below zero, Guitar is a Jackson Adrian Smith USA model with a Suhr Aldridge pickup in the bridge. I'm happy to post up the preset if anyone wants it. It never feeds back at home in the studio, only at gigs with the matrix and the FR212.

I really want to get to the bottom of this and sort it out, or i might just have to ditch the axe and go back to the EVH stack, its been driving me mad for week. Surely i can get this rocking?
 
It's probably feedback into the Axe-Fx itself. Isolate the Axe-Fx from the speakers. If you are putting the Axe-Fx on top of your speakers that might be the problem.
 
It's probably feedback into the Axe-Fx itself. Isolate the Axe-Fx from the speakers. If you are putting the Axe-Fx on top of your speakers that might be the problem.
Indeed taking the rack a few feet away has helped a bit before, will try that at the next gig. Here is the preset, for your convenience I unlinked global blocks and removed the vol and wah blocks which are linked together to external controllers. Scene 4 is the main high gain, and Scene 5 is the Lead. (Scenes 1, 2 and 3 are the clean mid gains which are fine).
 

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The new preset is definitely more controllable.

I messed with your preset a bit. See what you think of scenes 4 and 5. To me, they seem to have a little more attitude. Compare them to the preset you posted for tone and "feedbackiness."
 

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Thanks Rex, i'll run it up at gig volume at my earliest opportunity which can't be today unfortunately. A/B'ing both presets in headphones right now and i'm liking the difference for sure. I applied the your X (Blue) Input Gain and MV settings over to the Y (Red) as well, balances up well.
 
Good catch. I didn't think to look for a Y amp. :)

Looking forward to hearing your impressions when it's cranked.
 
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