Howling Feedback on High Gain amps problem AXE MK II

Rexxyboy

Rexxyboy

Member
I'm having howling low-mid feedback at gigs when i turn up my GT1000fx on high gain scenes (5150 100w Red Amp). If I turn the GT back down of course it goes away, (also if i pull my volume pedal back a touch (VOL/PAN block). Input gate and a gate block help a little, but that aside, i feel like my volume is being capped by the axe fx when i need to get more stage volume. i'm using a Matrix FR212.

So I Play softer and no howling, but turn up and is a howling wind! I replicated the problem today a few times and it got a little better by using the Friedman HBE instead of the 5150 100 Red. It's not the guitar as i played some riffs into my loop pedal and used the level on it to engage the howl at high volumes to try and troubleshoot it, but not getting anywhere. Oddly, when i hit the i/o button on the AXE, the feedback stops immediately.

Any tips appreciated. Surely some of you guys play really loud on high gain with no problems?
My Input is a Zero, and the amps are all around zero db in the VU meters.
Amp gain around 9, masters around 6, AMP block levels between -12 and -25, scene levels all at zero..
The AXE is in a roadcase on top of the Matrix Fr212 cab.
 
Rexxyboy said:
It's not the guitar as i played some riffs into my loop pedal and used the level on it to engage the howl at high volumes to try and troubleshoot it, but not getting anywhere.
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the howl is probably feedback from the live guitar, so if you play a loop (a recording), it won't howl no matter how high you turn it up.
 
Hey Chris, In order to eliminate the guitar i used the loop pedal for the main part of the test and it howls in exactly the same way. Help Me Obi Wan! FYI The Guitar is Adrian Smith Jackson USA with a Suhr Aldridge..
 
How much gain are you running (amp gain plus Drive gain plus compressor plus volume blocks plus filters plus EQ plus...)?

The Axe is capable of more gain than a traditional tube rig. It's easy to dial in more gain than you would ever use normally. And with enough gain, any device will develop feedback.
 
At gigs, where and how you position your floor monitors, and do you have to push them at high volumes for hearing yourself or not ?
 
I had this exact problem with a Steve Vai preset from axechange in the end I had to give up and recreate it as it would howl even with the guitar volume off.
 
In addition to the "normal" guitar feedback:

1. The guitar pickups can squeal. This is a very high and super piercing whistle, always the same note, not affected by what you're playing. If it goes away when you move, switch to another pickup, or turn the guitar volume down, its most likely this.

2. The Axe itself will howl if you have bucketloads of gain and the axe is near the speaker. This is the lowest in pitch of these squeals. Try tapping the front panel, if you hear the knocks loud enough to start the howl, that's the problem. Lower gain and move the axe further away from the speaker.


3. The guitar will howl if you are very close to a big frfr speaker. Their tweeters create a magnetic field that messes up with guitar pickups. Very annoying sound also. The most surprising mode of squealing, it starts even with moderate gain if you stand too close to the PA speaker.


Since you already tried it with a looper, I'd start on #2 if here isn't anything weird within the preset itself.
 
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yes i see this happen sometimes with users who are fairly new to the axe. they wind up the gain and then use the noise gate to clamp down on the hiss and tighten up the response. then they wind up the gain some more, because the noise gate is now taking too much away from the original tone. then the gate has to go up again and it's a downward spiral until the preset becomes unusable. it's only when you turn the noise gate off that you realise just how much gain there is and how far it's beyond what someone might consider "normal" or indeed "useable". this may not be the problem here, of course...it could simply be microphonic pickups...
 
The op stated it also was recreated with the looper. I think this would rule out the guitar. I would look at getting the axe off the speaker and turn down the gain. I play some pretty heavy tones and have no need for the gain to be over 5 on a 5153 amp.
 
Thanks for your input I'm aware its pretty high gain, i made a two videos HERE






AXE HOWL 2 - this was done with NO input plugged in at all. I think after this test i the AXE's microphonic tendencies might be my enemy when the volume gets loud in the room and on stage. The rack here is away from the FR212. When i hit the rack it is quite loud thru the speaker, louder than the video suggests (real tube amps do this too i know).

AXE HOWL 1 - this was done with just the loop pedal without the guitar plugged in.

Preset Attached - I copied my high gain rhythm scene to all scenes here just for this purpose.
 

Attachments

  • DECEMBER HOWL AXE MKII.syx
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paranoid said:
The op stated it also was recreated with the looper. I think this would rule out the guitar. I would look at getting the axe off the speaker and turn down the gain. I play some pretty heavy tones and have no need for the gain to be over 5 on a 5153 amp.
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I will try this too.. as hard as it may be for a gainiac like me :D
 
I have a tendency to use to much gain when playing at low volumes because you do not feel it, but when you crank it up in a mix environment you will probably find you can dial it back a bunch, and your tone will be improved. I have a 5153 patch I used to play today and looked at the gain setting since reading your post earlier today input gain at 2, input trim .9, master volume 2. I do though add a tube screamer for the lead scene.
 
Rexxyboy said:
Preset Attached - I copied my high gain rhythm scene to all scenes here just for this purpose.
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You need to unlink Global Blocks before you you upload the file. When we load the file, we get whatever we've got set for Global Amp 2, not what you've got there, so we don't get the amp as you've got it set up.

From the videos you posted, you've got acoustic feedback coming in no small part from tons of gain. And you've got Output 1 cranked all the way up, which means you're probably overdriving the heck out of your power amp's input.
 
Here is the updated preset without global blocks. I actually removed Amp 2 from convenience, as my Amp 1 is the high gain amp.
Re Out 1 being full and using the matrix level control as a MV is common, There are never clip lights coming on the matrix, Its 500 watts into a 4 ohm Matrix cab
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Attachments

  • DECEMBER HOWL 2.syx
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paranoid said:
I have a tendency to use to much gain when playing at low volumes because you do not feel it, but when you crank it up in a mix environment you will probably find you can dial it back a bunch, and your tone will be improved. I have a 5153 patch I used to play today and looked at the gain setting since reading your post earlier today input gain at 2, input trim .9, master volume 2. I do though add a tube screamer for the lead scene.
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I test everything at gig level, pulling gain back to around 7ish improved things a little of course, but anything lower than that is not ideal for high gain, sounds more mid gainy, and lacks 'hair' to my ears..
 
Turn the amp all the way up and turn your Axe output 1 way down to like 9 O'Clock or maybe a little less. Leave your gain straight up at 5 and if you need more gain on the 5153 just turn the boost switch on. Works great for me.
 
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