How would you describe this drum beat?

Bakerman said:
I haven't seen that definition before. IME odd meter usually means groups of different length (twos and threes) at some level within a measure. 6/8 is two beats, both the same length (three eighth notes). 5/4 is 5 equal beats, but at the quarter note level you have 3/4 + 2/4 or 2/4 + 3/4, so it's odd.
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That's commonly called "compound". The definition of "odd" a lot looser than compound though, and often just means unusual, which means it has a lot of overlap with compound :).
 
GlennO said:
That's commonly called "compound". The definition of "odd" a lot looser than compound though, and often just means unusual, which means it has a lot of overlap with compound :).
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I didn't mean to imply 6/8 is odd but yes, it's compound (some type of dotted note as the beat).

In contrast 5/4 is 3+2 or 2+3 at the quarter note level. Someone might say that's just "simple quintuple" meter but I'd call it odd too.
 
Bakerman said:
I haven't seen that definition before. IME odd meter usually means groups of different length (twos and threes) at some level within a measure. 6/8 is two beats, both the same length (three eighth notes). 5/4 is 5 equal beats, but at the quarter note level you have 3/4 + 2/4 or 2/4 + 3/4, so it's odd.
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That's the logic I applied in this case: one group of two notes and two groups of three notes.
 
So...accumulating what's been observed so far and getting back to the OP, I think I'd describe it as a bluegrass/folk sort of rhythm in 4/4 at around 78 bpm. You have accents on the beats of 1 and the 2&. Just IMO.

Edit: Accents are on 1, 2&, and 3& (as previously stated by someone else above).
 
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fcs101 said:
You're saying the same thing I was by counting it in double time. All you're doing is assigning one beat to every eighth note. That's gonna make it feel like the tempo is twice as fast as it actually is though.
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I'm nowhere near as knowledgeable as a lot you are with music theory but to the best of my knowledge, the time signature doesn't really have anything to do with tempo. It's how the notes are played at a specified tempo; 1/4 notes at 144 bpm will have the same feel as 1/8 notes at 72 bpm.

Didn't mean to start a discussion about theory, the question was "how would you describe this drum beat". A lot a members here are well versed in music theory and have studied it for years. Others, like myself, lack the knowledge to fully articulate what we feel and hear in the correct technical sense. All I am attempting to say is it's simpler for me to count 1 and 2 and 3 and 4... vs 1 e and a 2 e and a 3 e and a 4.... This drum beat makes more sense to me thinking in eighth note subdivisions.

Right or wrong, I guess it matters to some extent, but the end result is I'm able to grasp it in 8/8. After listening to it a few more times, I can get 4/4 but 8/8 is still easier. If I were reading a chart, having never heard the song, I would likely be at a loss as to how to apply the rhythm. I've always played by ear and have never had a need to learn notation. Lazy on my part? Probably. However, I'm constantly trying to learn new things and this has sparked an interest that may help me down the road as a musician.
 
JoKeR III said:
I'm nowhere near as knowledgeable as a lot you are with music theory but to the best of my knowledge, the time signature doesn't really have anything to do with tempo.

Right or wrong, I guess it matters to some extent, but the end result is I'm able to grasp it in 8/8. After listening to it a few more times, I can get 4/4 but 8/8 is still easier.
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The time signature has everything to do with the tempo. If you are counting 4/4 @ 78 bpm, then you'd be counting it in 8/8 at 156.

I'm not going to get into the whole 4/4 vs 8/8. You can notate in any time sig you want. I would say that 8/8 is unconventional, because most people will look and say, "why didn't you just put it in 4/4?". It's no big deal though so long as it makes sense.

4/4 makes more sense here if you try to isolate the guitar. I liked @NeoSound 's comment above about how it reminds him of a solo guitar player playing his own bass drum. I think the guitar drives the rhythm here.
 
TSJMajesty said:
I remember being taught that the top number represents the number of beats in a measure, and the bottom number tells you which note gets the beat. But then when I started reading more complex music, in which measures switch from say, 4/4 to 7/8, but the beat and tempo doesn't change, then this definition was either wrong, or incomplete, or the music really should've been written as 8/8 & 7/8.
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...or maybe 4/4 and 7/8 with a doubling of tempo in the 7/8 bit - unless you're locked into the number of quarter notes per minute as the definition of tempo and not the number of the type of note that is on the bottom of the fraction per minute as the tempo. Lots of moving parts in that one.

TSJMajesty said:
Personally I think the rules aren't completely consistent, based on I how I see music scored and notated.
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This ^^^^ seems rather truthy....
 
Joe Bfstplk said:
...or maybe 4/4 and 7/8 with a doubling of tempo in the 7/8 bit - unless you're locked into the number of quarter notes per minute as the definition of tempo and not the number of the type of note that is on the bottom of the fraction per minute as the tempo. Lots of moving parts in that one.



This ^^^^ seems rather truthy....
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The rules are consistent and everything stated about how to read a time sig was accurate.

What I've seen in some scores is a shift in the time sig and no "apparent" change in tempo. This sometimes happens because of a complex passage which is just easier to read in a different time sig. The tempo does indeed change, if shifts accordingly to keep the relative tempo (what you hear) consistent. If such a piece is annotated correctly it will be marked with appropriate tempo change to keep what you hear consistent.
 
How far are we into the "overthinking it" zone are we when it comes to this thread??? I wonder? Barely? Just a couple of feet?
Many, many, many miles??

Of course, I am mostly kidding..... :)

I do (over)think it's funny that a bunch of guitar players would be asked to chime in on a drum beat/groove. Not that all of us are
exclusively guitar players. I am sure there are some multi-instrumentalists in this thread.

Personally, tempo matters. To me it matters a whole helluva lot. A slower tempo simply yields more space and allows us to
play with the beat/groove much more than a faster tempo will yield. That is why I still think this song is not a post-punk pop
song played at 144 bpm. And if it is you better stay on top of that beat like Travis Barker on top of yet another Tattoo chair.....
because Vivace is not waiting for you like Andante is. Andante has a lot more SPACE for us to make up time, lose time, or stay
right on time. Not unlike the drums in the song being discussed. :)
 
fcs101 said:
. I think the guitar drives the rhythm here.
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I think so, too. The drums are like the opposite pole holding back the tempo while the guitars are trying to drive/push it
with the 16th note triplet strumming patterns. To me that is what makes the song have that kind of "odd" feel. Of course,
it is often the case with guitarists that they want to set the tempo of a song to their strumming. The faster the strum the
faster the song, no??? :)

By the way, I always speed up in the chorus----so you all better expect it. :)
 
Vivace, that was one of them old-timey composers, right? ;)
I remember wondering, what is this?, the first time I saw tempos written in English. Seemed very weird.
 
la noise said:
A slower tempo simply yields more space and allows us to...
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Speaking of "space," one of the most tasteful statements I've ever heard in a guitar solo is this quick little pause that Alex puts in this solo. Of course, feel free to rewind to listen to the whole thing in context; I just put the video there to point out the part. The whole thing is genius.
 
TSJMajesty said:
Speaking of "space," one of the most tasteful statements I've ever heard in a guitar solo is this quick little pause that Alex puts in this solo. Of course, feel free to rewind to listen to the whole thing in context; I just put the video there to point out the part. The whole thing is genius.
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Some guitarist, I cannot recall, said what you don't play is as important as what you do play (or words to that effect).

EDIT: Found the quote and boy was I way off on the source--"The music is not in the notes but in the silence between." --Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
 
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la noise said:
How far are we into the "overthinking it" zone are we when it comes to this thread??? I wonder? Barely? Just a couple of feet?
Many, many, many miles??

Of course, I am mostly kidding..... :)
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You would think so, but people hear two different tempos due to the syncopation. That's led to most of the overthinking.🤔 As I said earlier, our brains WANT everything to fit nicely on the beat. That's why I tried to key in on what the guitar strum was doing; you can here that strong down strum on the 1 each time.

It seemed complex at first, but now it doesn't seem quite so.

Rock on, have a great evening, and don't forget to set your clock back an hour!⏲️
 
TSJMajesty said:
Speaking of "space," one of the most tasteful statements I've ever heard in a guitar solo is this quick little pause that Alex puts in this solo. Of course, feel free to rewind to listen to the whole thing in context; I just put the video there to point out the part. The whole thing is genius.
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Signals is literally the first cassette I ever bought with my own money. :)

There was this cool waterbed place (when waterbeds were massive!) that also
doubled as an headshop, and a small record store, in the town I grew up in.

"Be cool or be castout!"
 
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