How to use Scenes and access 3+ amp sounds

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Dr. Dipwad

Experienced
Maybe there's a way to do this, but I can't figure out what it is.

I like seamless delays and reverbs.

And I like the Verse being clean, the Pre-Chorus being semi-distorted, and the Chorus being full-on distortion. And maybe a lead sound in the bridge.

And I like my clean sound being, say, a Fender Twin, my semi-distorted grit from a Marshall JCM or something, my full-on distortion from a Mesa Boogie. And maybe my lead sound is something else entirely.

People talk about using Scenes to have instantaneous sound-changes with no gaps and seamless delays (if you set your Bypass Mode correctly).

Okay, that sounds fine...but, if you're changing from clean to distortion to gritty to lead, and you like different amp sounds for all those things, you can't do that with Scenes, right?

You can't, because a single program can only contain 2 amps & cabs, correct? (And actually, more than 1 Amp+Cab really cuts down on the available effects you can fit in the program, too.)

Isn't that all correct? If not, what am I missing? And if so, what's the workaround?

It looks like I'm usually stuck using different programs, for different amp sounds, and just putting up with the gaps. Yes, I know how to set up reverb and delay tails across programs, and it helps, but it's not the same as the instantaneous effect you get with scene changes, is it?
 
Preset changes and X/Y changes cause blocks to reload and creates a tiny drop out. You can use X/Y on the two amp blocks and access 4 amp models in one preset via scenes, but the X/Y changes will not be completely seamless. Enabling and bypassing blocks is completely seamless, so controlling gain using other blocks is a workaround for getting more seamless tones. Adding EQs, filters, compressors, and drive blocks can give you quite a bit of flexibility without actually changing amp models. You can also use scene controllers to directly manipulate the gain settings in the amp block itself. There's also the Saturation and Boost switches in the amp block as well for goosing the gain for lead tones. These too will be seamless since they're just parameter changes.

The switching gap is far less obvious if you train yourself to switch presets or scenes before the downbeat, so that initial hit of the next part is not chopped off. Having reverb and or delay spill over helps to smear the change as well. Orchestration comes in handy too, where you can have someone else play a fill or something to help mask the switch as well. If you're in a 3 piece group, your options are more limited, but if you've got keys or a second guitarist, layer your changes accordingly.
 
Don't forget that scene controllers on the drive/mv parameters can also be used.

Not that this has anything to do with anything, since it's obviously all a matter of personal taste, but using 3 or 4 different amps in a single tune seems a bit weird to me. On top of that, unless you're switching out cabs as well, the differences are going to be flattened out -- a number of people have demonstrated this in the past. So that's a lot of complication.
 
Remind me - does the XY switching gap occur even when the amp block isn't in the current audio path? Like say you switch Amp 2 from X to Y in the background while using Amp 1.
 
philipacamaniac said:
Remind me - does the XY switching gap occur even when the amp block isn't in the current audio path? Like say you switch Amp 2 from X to Y in the background while using Amp 1.
Click to expand...
Yes... This issue confounded me for a while in the past.

To the OP, the best approach I can think of if you want gapless switching would be to use a 2 amp setup in conjunction with drive blocks. You can use 4 different drive options (Drive 1 & 2, X & Y). You can even get 4 different variations with 1 amp, but two allows for more variation.
 
Hey, everyone, thanks for all the replies!

I honestly had not messed with X/Y stuff because I was under the impression that it could only be used to change the settings of an amp block (like how much Mid), but not the block's model (like whether it's a Boogie or a Dumble).

So it sounds like you guys are proposing something like this:
- Scene 1: Amp1 in State X: Fender Twin, for cleanest sounds
- Scene 2: Amp1 in State Y: Vox AC30, for slightly grittier sounds
- Scene 3: Amp2 in State X: Marshall JCM 900, for more distortion
- Scene 4: Amp2 in State Y: Mesa Dual Rectifier, for the most distortion

Is that the general idea?

Actually, it occurs to me that I could have Amp 1 and Amp2 on simultaneously, with a Pan or Mixer or something determining the balance between them. Using that, I could set the 4 amps up this way....
- Scene 1: Amp1 in State X: Fender Twin, for cleanest sounds
- Scene 2: Amp1 in State Y: Marshall JCM 900, for more distortion
- Scene 3: Amp2 in State X: Vox AC30, for slightly grittier sounds
- Scene 4: Amp2 in State Y: Mesa Dual Rectifier, for the most distortion

...and then have some kind of short ramp-time on the cross-fades between Amp1 and Amp2.

In that way, transitions between the Fender Twin and the Vox AC30 would be a smooth cross-fade from Amp1 to Amp2.

Likewise, transitions between the Marshall and the Mesa.

But I guess that the transitions from either of the 2 Cleaner amps, to either of the 2 Distorted amps, would still have an abrupt X/Y gap. Right?

How bad is that X/Y gap? Is it any shorter than a program change?
 
You've pretty much got it...

Yes, any time the X/Y of the amp changes (even if in an inactive Amp block) there will be a small gap.

The gap is smaller than on a program change in my experience, and I did use a 4 amp "template" for all my presets for a while. In almost all cases, the places where I needed to change amp sounds where the was a gap were "natural breaks" in the music so I could make that work... but for things where you want/need to freely flow may be a bigger challenge.

For me now, I primarily use a single clean-ish amp with 4 Drives for my various flavors.
 
Thanks, unix-guy (and everyone else, too), you guys have been tremendously helpful.

You say you use "a single clean-ish amp with 4 Drives" for the various flavors that, in my proposed scheme, correspond to 4 different amps.

That leads me to a question:

Which clean-ish amp, together with which drive, will most-closely approximate the kinds of variations I described above?

I mean, the reason I like a Fender Twin or Double Verb for clean is because I like Eric Johnson cleans, or David Gilmour, or Petrucci's center-position.

And I go for various Mesas for heaviest crunch because that's where Petrucci lives.

For lighter pop-esque crunches I go for the 80's sounds ranging from Mr. Mister's "Broken Wings" sound up to the sound VanHalen used on 5150 (e.g. Summer Nights).

And for worship tunes with lots of echoes I seem to need to pull out the Vox pretty regularly, because every Chris Tomlin song seems to have The Edge hiding in there somewhere.

Now, is there really a single clean amp which, when coupled with different drive pedals, EQs, etc., can do all that?

Or perhaps (since we can have 2 amps in one program), are there two amps, one of which can handle half of those sounds, and the other of which can handle the other half?

Recommendations appreciated!
 
Two amps + 4 Drives would probably be a better approach for you...

BUT do you really need all of that for 1 song? You can craft different presets for different songs... as in that case, you don't typically have an issue with audio gaps during a program change.

In my case, I am playing original music that I wrote... and I use various clean amps as the foundation. I could play all 3+ hours of original tunes with a single preset if I need to, but I change it up depending on how I feel.

I tend to like amps that do edge-of-breakup well, as that is really my "clean" sound...

You could probably get a "general purpose" patch that would work for you by using 1 Fender type amp and 1 Marshall type amp plus the drives.
 
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