How To Tone Match Pre Gain Differences?

GotMetalBoy

GotMetalBoy

Power User
What settings in the Amp block adjust pre gain dynamics and frequency response? Is there such thing as a Multiband Expander? I use the Input Gate and the Gate/Expander Block as an Expander to increase my dynamics and wondering if there's anyway to make them frequency dependent?

If you've never used a gate as an expander to increase dynamics or don't know what that means, check out this post I wrote 5 years ago:
* Here's a Tip for anybody who wants more dynamics and pick attack: https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...ho-wants-more-dynamics-and-pick-attack.49252/

I recently sold my Triaxis but before selling it, I made some recordings and tried to do some tone matches. The tone matches sounded good for almost an octave but then start to go separate ways even though I played notes all over the neck during the tone match. If the low notes match, the higher notes sound less distorted in the Triaxis. The Axe-Fx II pre gain sounds almost too consistent.

I'm personally not looking to make my Axe-Fx II sound just like the Triaxis. I want to know how to sculpture my tone better. I've tried putting a Parametric EQ before the Amp Block which got me close and in some ways got me a better tone than I was expecting but I know there has to be advanced parameters that would get me closer to the Holy Grail of Tone. I've learned so much about tone in the past 5 years since I got my Axe-Fx II but I've rarely used any of the advanced parameters in the Amp Block.


Here's info about my Triaxis and 290 I sold and wondering what parameters in the Axe-Fx II could be tweaked to change the USA PRE models to make them respond similar to my Triaxis did with the non-standard tubes?

* Triaxis SN: T-7736
** It didn't have stock tubes and I installed the High Gain Low Output Option from Eurotubes.com
*** https://www.eurotubes.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=495&idcategory=159
**** Lower noise floor and output but maximum gain
**** 3 High gain ECC83S for V1, V2 and V4
**** 1 Standard ECC81 for V3
**** 1 Matched and Balanced ECC81 for V5
**** ECC83S-HG-K=2
**** ECC81 Standard=1
**** ECC83S-HG-K=1
**** ECC81 matched and Balanced=1

* Stereo Simul-Class 2:Ninety (2:90) with Blue Power Light SN: N-4569
** I installed the Standard Retube Kit from Eurotubes.com
*** https://www.eurotubes.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=504&idcategory=163
**** The preamp section uses three Matched and Balanced ECC83S
**** The default power tubes are a matched octet of the JJ Electronic 6L6GC
**** All preamp tubes are Matched and Balanced so they can go in any location
**** These amps are fixed bias with no adjustment
**** ECC83S Matched and Balanced=3
**** 6L6GC Matched Octet=1
 
Tahoebrian5 said:
Have you tried the multi band compressor?
Click to expand...

Yes, but that reduces dynamics. I'll try using the Expander into the Multi Band Compressor into the Amp and then compress the frequencies that I want to have less dynamics, so kind of backwards to what I was looking for but may work.

I was also thinking about trying to use the Crossover into the Expander into the Amp.
 
this is all voodoo to me...i'm an fx guy, not an amp guy. i just use bmt, gain and mv on my amps.

my feeling is if you try to massage the signal before it goes into the amp, it'll always end up sounding over processed and a bit fake. if you've spotted a "flaw" in the triaxis amp model, then it should be something that cliff can fix. if there are tweaks you can make to the advanced parameters in the current model to make it sound more like your real one, then again...cliff is probably the best person to talk to about it.
 
I think I may have found some helpful info. I was reading the Wiki and Yek's Fractal Audio Amplifier Models: Yek's PDF Guide. Yek;s guide is really helpful because at the end of each amp section, there's a table that says the location of the tonestack.

Go to step 5 in the link below.
http://wiki.fractalaudio.com/axefx2...IGHT_.28based_on_MESA.2FBoogie_Mark_IIC.2B.29

It says: "Put a Tilt EQ (From the Filter Block) before the amp block with a frequency of 320 Hz and a gain of -3 dB. Set the Level to +3 dB".

I didn't know about the Tilt EQ in the Filter block, so I've always used the PEQ or GEQ. It definitely helped with making the signal going into the Amp block not be as linear. I'm going to try attaching either the frequency or frequency level to the Envelope Filter, so I can make things more dynamic.

I like playing through amps that I can control dynamics with my pick attack. I've never been good at using a guitar's volume knob or tone knob to control dynamics. I'm really enjoying playing through the CORNCOB M50 (based on Cornford MK50 II). The factory preset that uses it is 031 Corncob but I think it's from before Quantum and from Firmware 12 and earlier.

Here's the link to Yek's Fractal Audio Amplifier Models: Yek's PDF Guide
* https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/fractal-audio-amplifier-models-yeks-pdf-guide.115779/
 
GotMetalBoy said:
What settings in the Amp block adjust pre gain dynamics and frequency response?
Click to expand...
Input Drive affects pre-gain frequency response (Input Trim affects preamp gain without affecting frequency response).

You can move the tone stack wherever you want it, so can have that EQ wherever you want.

You also have some flexibility in the Amp block's GEQ placement.

The Dynamics page is loaded with stuff that affects...well...dynamics. :)

You can also place compression/expansion/EQ blocks in front of the Amp block.


GotMetalBoy said:
Is there such thing as a Multiband Expander?
Click to expand...
I've never heard of one, and I'm having a hard time thinking of where I would use one, but in theory, such a thing could be made.


GotMetalBoy said:
I recently sold my Triaxis but before selling it, I made some recordings and tried to do some tone matches. The tone matches sounded good for almost an octave but then start to go separate ways even though I played notes all over the neck during the tone match. If the low notes match, the higher notes sound less distorted in the Triaxis. The Axe-Fx II pre gain sounds almost too consistent.
Click to expand...
When a Tone Match doesn't match, it's usually because the gain structure wasn't dialed in right before you did the Tone Match.

Your Triaxis didn't have a power amp. The tone you got from it was highly dependent on the power amp and cab that you were using with it.


There's no expansion going on in the Triaxis or in any other physical amp that I'm aware of. It's unlikely that expansion will be necessary to accurately tone-match the Triaxis.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom