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How to set up Looper without MFC-101

Wishiwasfinnish

New Member
I have the Axe FX ii mark ii and I'm stumped on how to set up the looper. I have a midi foot controller and I see that the midi numbers for the looper record/play functions are #28,29. But when I hit those numbers on my foot switch, the looper doesn't activate, the patch just changes. I know I'm missing something big here but I haven't been able to find any answers. Help would be very much appreciated.
 

Hubertus

Power User
I have the Axe FX ii mark ii and I'm stumped on how to set up the looper. I have a midi foot controller and I see that the midi numbers for the looper record/play functions are #28,29. But when I hit those numbers on my foot switch, the looper doesn't activate, the patch just changes. I know I'm missing something big here but I haven't been able to find any answers. Help would be very much appreciated.
You need to send CC messages to control the effects in the Axe. Your controller appears to send PC messages.
 

Wishiwasfinnish

New Member
You need to send CC messages to control the effects in the Axe. Your controller appears to send PC messages.

Ok that's what I figured, I have the MIDI Mongoose from Tech 21 but I don't know what I'd need to do to send Midi CC messages or if that's even possible with this pedal. I'm completely clueless on how to do this, are there any examples you could give on how to set up a system for the kind of control I want? I'd like to be able to switch patches but also have the Midi CC control to activate the looper.
 

Wishiwasfinnish

New Member
Ok I've done some more research and I found out how to connect a CC pedal to my MIDI controller and set the values on the pedal to send CC messages. I think all I need is two momentary or latch switches (since my pedal has two CC outputs) and then just set the values to the looper function values. Now I'll just have to get ahold of some switch pedals and see if that works.
 

Wishiwasfinnish

New Member
I just ordered the Rocktron Midi Mate which seems like it'll do what I want. Ordered on reverb new for $229. The Midi mate has 10 buttons for sending messages, 5 for PC and 5 available for CC messages. It took me way longer than I would've liked to find this pedal and I'm constantly disappointed by the information about MIDI out there and the lack of compatible products to do something as simple as access the basic functions of the Axe Fx. Even the looper control on the MFC 101 is crap as far as I'm concerned. Having to enter a separate mode for looping and then having to switch back to the normal mode to send PC messages defeats the purpose of the looper for me. I, and I imagine most people, would like to be able to engage the looper and other CC enabled functions as well as patch changes without having to switch modes or anything like that.

I hope Fractal realizes how annoying this is and does something about it in the future, as well as providing more information for people like me who just want to use their damn Axe Fx for all it has to offer without having to dig through the trenches of bad information across the internet to do so. Music technology continues to lag behind other industries in terms of user friendliness - the Axe Fx is a marvel of audio engineering but it still has a ways to go before I'm completely satisfied. I mean the fact that when using Axe Edit the window size proportions are fixed is hilarious to me. A company so advanced that they can replicate any guitar tone ever created can't even make a decent GUI for their flagship product. Come on....
 

unix-guy

Legend!
I just ordered the Rocktron Midi Mate which seems like it'll do what I want. Ordered on reverb new for $229. The Midi mate has 10 buttons for sending messages, 5 for PC and 5 available for CC messages. It took me way longer than I would've liked to find this pedal and I'm constantly disappointed by the information about MIDI out there and the lack of compatible products to do something as simple as access the basic functions of the Axe Fx. Even the looper control on the MFC 101 is crap as far as I'm concerned. Having to enter a separate mode for looping and then having to switch back to the normal mode to send PC messages defeats the purpose of the looper for me. I, and I imagine most people, would like to be able to engage the looper and other CC enabled functions as well as patch changes without having to switch modes or anything like that.

I hope Fractal realizes how annoying this is and does something about it in the future, as well as providing more information for people like me who just want to use their damn Axe Fx for all it has to offer without having to dig through the trenches of bad information across the internet to do so. Music technology continues to lag behind other industries in terms of user friendliness - the Axe Fx is a marvel of audio engineering but it still has a ways to go before I'm completely satisfied. I mean the fact that when using Axe Edit the window size proportions are fixed is hilarious to me. A company so advanced that they can replicate any guitar tone ever created can't even make a decent GUI for their flagship product. Come on....
There is no requirement to use the Looper mode of the MFC to control the Looper. It's there for convenience. You can easily program Looper control functions into the main page.

The Axe Fx is not really any different than other midi controlled device I have ever used, other than that it allows for a lot of additional flexibility compared to some. Getting mad at Fractal because you don't have a good grasp of midi, or because you are frustrated with information on 3rd party controllers is pretty silly.

Most "decent" midi controllers support sending PCs and CCs. Some are simple and support only PCs. Some only support sending hardcoded data values for CCs (0/127, aka, off/on) when using them while others support sending user specified data values (required for full use of scenes).

If you can't find information on this, how is Fractal at fault? They don't make those devices... Get mad at those manufacturers.

And then you add a complaint about Axe Edit? What does that have to do with controlling the Looper or midi? If you want it to be different, go post a wish in the Wish List.
 

Wishiwasfinnish

New Member
There is no requirement to use the Looper mode of the MFC to control the Looper. It's there for convenience. You can easily program Looper control functions into the main page.

The Axe Fx is not really any different than other midi controlled device I have ever used, other than that it allows for a lot of additional flexibility compared to some. Getting mad at Fractal because you don't have a good grasp of midi, or because you are frustrated with information on 3rd party controllers is pretty silly.

Most "decent" midi controllers support sending PCs and CCs. Some are simple and support only PCs. Some only support sending hardcoded data values for CCs (0/127, aka, off/on) when using them while others support sending user specified data values (required for full use of scenes).

If you can't find information on this, how is Fractal at fault? They don't make those devices... Get mad at those manufacturers.

And then you add a complaint about Axe Edit? What does that have to do with controlling the Looper or midi? If you want it to be different, go post a wish in the Wish List.

I think companies like Fractal assume people should have too great a knowledge of things like MIDI without going the extra step to help people understand how it works. I only even found out that CCs were something that existed about a week ago, and I've been using various MIDI controllers for years. It's just not something you necessarily learn until you need to.

I didn't realize you could program the MFC to send CCs from the main page so my bad there.

But I don't take back what I said about Axe Edit because it's just a great example of how mediocrity is accepted in music technology on a level that is entirely unacceptable in other fields of engineering. Axe Edit is a mediocre program and Fractal is mediocre at providing complete information to their customers.
 

unix-guy

Legend!
I think companies like Fractal assume people should have too great a knowledge of things like MIDI without going the extra step to help people understand how it works. I only even found out that CCs were something that existed about a week ago, and I've been using various MIDI controllers for years. It's just not something you necessarily learn until you need to.
True... And now you've learned, so you know.

Why do you feel it's Fractal's job to teach you about midi? Do other companies do this? No, they don't. They tell you (at best) how to use some of the functionality in their devices. If you're lucky, they will provide a midi implementation table.

I didn't realize you could program the MFC to send CCs from the main page so my bad there.
Every IA switch sends CCs. Looper controls are just IA switches.

But I don't take back what I said about Axe Edit because it's just a great example of how mediocrity is accepted in music technology on a level that is entirely unacceptable in other fields of engineering. Axe Edit is a mediocre program and Fractal is mediocre at providing complete information to their customers.
Maybe you should just use the front panel? The software is provided to you free of charge. It's not something you've paid for... Maybe you should take that into consideration before complaining?

I've found Fractal to provide more information and have more involvement with their customers than any music gear manufacturer I've ever encountered in 30+ years.
 

Wishiwasfinnish

New Member
True... And now you've learned, so you know.

Why do you feel it's Fractal's job to teach you about midi? Do other companies do this? No, they don't. They tell you (at best) how to use some of the functionality in their devices. If you're lucky, they will provide a midi implementation table.


Every IA switch sends CCs. Looper controls are just IA switches.


Maybe you should just use the front panel? The software is provided to you free of charge. It's not something you've paid for... Maybe you should take that into consideration before complaining?

I've found Fractal to provide more information and have more involvement with their customers than any music gear manufacturer I've ever encountered in 30+ years.

I guess I just have high standards for any company nowadays because of the extremely high level of care and customer support that virtually every venture capital backed startup provides. I'm aware Fractal isn't one of those companies but that's what I'm used to living in this age. I'm sure Fractal doesn't have millions to spend on software development, etc. I just think every company should try and make things as easy as clear as possible, especially when you're paying many thousands of dollars for their products, and I think Fractal could do a better job.

Just because other companies don't educate you about MIDI doesn't mean Fractal shouldn't. Something as simple as guide to MIDI and a list of compatible MIDI controllers, and a more detailed guide on how to use all of the functionality of the Axe Fx for a complete N00b like myself would really be nice.
 

unix-guy

Legend!
I guess I just have high standards for any company nowadays because of the extremely high level of care and customer support that virtually every venture capital backed startup provides. I'm aware Fractal isn't one of those companies but that's what I'm used to living in this age. I'm sure Fractal doesn't have millions to spend on software development, etc. I just think every company should try and make things as easy as clear as possible, especially when you're paying many thousands of dollars for their products, and I think Fractal could do a better job.

Just because other companies don't educate you about MIDI doesn't mean Fractal shouldn't. Something as simple as guide to MIDI and a list of compatible MIDI controllers, and a more detailed guide on how to use all of the functionality of the Axe Fx for a complete N00b like myself would really be nice.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree ;)
 

bondsong

Experienced
Learning about your profession is your responsibility. With the internet there are thousands of ways to find out about things.A simple search will get you you the data you need. You can look up the terms you don't understand and find tutorials on just about any subject.

I also don't think it's the responsibility of Fractal to teach someone MIDI especially when the information is so readily available. I really can't believe how easy it is to find good tutorials on just about any subject you'd want to know about these days.
 

Paperjace

Experienced
From the MFC-101 manual. You can change any switch on the MFC-101 to be whatever CC# you want. Pick the two switches you want to use, follow these instructions, and assign them to Looper CC#'s that you want to use (you mentioned CC#28 and CC#29). Now you have looper controls on the main menu of the MFC.

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Exitetard

Inspired
True... And now you've learned, so you know.

Why do you feel it's Fractal's job to teach you about midi? Do other companies do this? No, they don't. They tell you (at best) how to use some of the functionality in their devices. If you're lucky, they will provide a midi implementation table.


Every IA switch sends CCs. Looper controls are just IA switches.


Maybe you should just use the front panel? The software is provided to you free of charge. It's not something you've paid for... Maybe you should take that into consideration before complaining?

I've found Fractal to provide more information and have more involvement with their customers than any music gear manufacturer I've ever encountered in 30+ years.
I’m with the OP about midi and you guys are coming off as elitist midi snobs. Chase bliss have midi tutorials how to get their pedals to work with midi devices. It helps sell the product and who doesn’t want a smarter customer base? Do you guys realize with the wealth of devices that there are very few device specific tutorials that teach basic programming. I have seen dozens of devices each with dozens more unique ways to send the same info but on different channels or different values. There is no universal programming standard other than the midi code itself. Every device has vastly different ccs and values

Try programming a website when all there was is html but you are expected to program flash. Go easy on the guy lots of people are in the same boat but jerkists like yourself make ppl afraid to ask.

So yes. It is fractals job to educate its patrons about how to use every facet of its devices
 

unix-guy

Legend!
I’m with the OP about midi and you guys are coming off as elitist midi snobs. Chase bliss have midi tutorials how to get their pedals to work with midi devices. It helps sell the product and who doesn’t want a smarter customer base? Do you guys realize with the wealth of devices that there are very few device specific tutorials that teach basic programming. I have seen dozens of devices each with dozens more unique ways to send the same info but on different channels or different values. There is no universal programming standard other than the midi code itself. Every device has vastly different ccs and values

Try programming a website when all there was is html but you are expected to program flash. Go easy on the guy lots of people are in the same boat but jerkists like yourself make ppl afraid to ask.

So yes. It is fractals job to educate its patrons about how to use every facet of its devices
Sorry, but (as you probably already know), I completely disagree.

Midi is a general system for controlling music devices - it stands for Musical Instrument Digital Interface. It has been in existence for decades...

Fractal does quite a great job explaining how to use their devices. Teaching you how Midi works is not their job.

The Fractal devices are also used for direct recording. Should they also teach you how to use a DAW?
 

Exitetard

Inspired
Sorry, but (as you probably already know), I completely disagree.

Midi is a general system for controlling music devices - it stands for Musical Instrument Digital Interface. It has been in existence for decades...

Fractal does quite a great job explaining how to use their devices. Teaching you how Midi works is not their job.

The Fractal devices are also used for direct recording. Should they also teach you how to use a DAW?

Chill with the patronizing comments. Obviously you are just innately smarter than anyone else, I’m sure you knew how to use midi since the 80s. Nobody ever taught you something you just self learned life.

What you expect out of a company and what others do is obviously your opinion but de-legitimizing someone’s question based off your own self righteous opinions are counter productive. I’m sure that many people would welcome tutorials on how to use their system better. I figured out what I could but all I hear from you is your attitude. Why shouldn’t they offer help with midi? I know plenty of companies that will send you midi help verbatim. That company is morningstarfx and last I checked you weren’t voted grand arbiter of time management for fractal so if you can’t help you are just in the way. For the price of these things they should offer help with whatever one can dream up to ask

You are clearly just a troll that has already wasted too much time. I point out multiple examples of companies doing exactly the opposite of what you think they should be so afaik they are making better business decisions than you ever could.

I don’t use a daw besides according to you everyone should just figure it all out by themselves. It’s not like mankind’s ability to teach and learn from one another is a big reason we have reached this level of society, culture and advancement. Nah who needs language we can just reinvent the wheel everytime someone like you shows up
 
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unix-guy

Legend!
Chill with the patronizing comments. Obviously you are just innately smarter than anyone else, I’m sure you knew how to use midi since the 80s. Nobody ever thought you something you just self learned life.

What you expect out of a company and what others do is obviously your opinion but de-legitimizing someone’s question based off your own self righteous opinions are counter productive. I’m sure that many people would welcome tutorials on how to use their system better. I figured out what I could but all I hear from you is your attitude. Why shouldn’t they offer help with midi? I know plenty of companies that will send you midi help verbatim. That company is morningstarfx and last I checked you weren’t voted grand arbiter of time management for fractal so if you can’t help you are just in the way. For the price of these things they should offer whatever one can dream up to ask

You are clearly just a troll that has already wasted too much time. I point out multiple examples of companies doing exactly the opposite of what you think they should be so afaik they are making better business decisions than you ever could.
Actually, before this post, you mentioned ONE company... Chase Bliss.

You're free to add me to your Ignore list.

Maybe look at my post and like count. I'm obviously not a troll...

I have my opinions, you have yours. Feel free to continue calling names. That's reflects on you, not me.
 

yek

Legend!
Chase bliss have midi tutorials how to get their pedals to work with midi devices.

The old (2018) discussion earlier in the thread, to which you are responding, is about whether FAS should educate users about MIDI in general, stuff such as: what are CCs and PCs. That goes far beyond manufacturers responsibilities. A bought car doesn't come with driving lessons or an explanation of how the motor inside actually works. But if you want to know, there's a MIDI tutorial on the wiki.

I know the Chase manuals. The provided info in those is not that different from the MIDI information contained in the back of all Fractal manuals.
I also know the Morningstarfx manuals (I own one of their controllers) and they also do not explain the basics of MIDI.
So I don't quite understand why you are referring to these.

You are quite new to this forum and you come in like a wrecking ball, necromancing a thread. Please take it a notch down, drop the personal attack and we'll all get along together fine and help each other.
 

Exitetard

Inspired
The old (2018) discussion earlier in the thread, to which you are responding, is about whether FAS should educate users about MIDI in general, stuff such as: what are CCs and PCs. That goes far beyond manufacturers responsibilities. A bought car doesn't come with driving lessons or an explanation of how the motor inside actually works. But if you want to know, there's a MIDI tutorial on the wiki.

I know the Chase manuals. The provided info in those is not that different from the MIDI information contained in the back of all Fractal manuals.
I also know the Morningstarfx manuals (I own one of their controllers) and they also do not explain the basics of MIDI.
So I don't quite understand why you are referring to these.

You are quite new to this forum and you come in like a wrecking ball, necromancing a thread. Please take it a notch down, drop the personal attack and we'll all get along together fine and help each other.
I was just not appreciating being talked to like I’m a fool or patronized. The only reason I found it was because I was doing a search in google about midi and looper and was made to feel completely uncomfortable due to comments like look it up yourself or it’s not fractals responsibility. Again it’s opinion. I happen to believe if a device has functionality it’s on the maker to explain how to get it working. Beyond just bland ccs and pc message guides.

As far as chase bliss goes, I’ve personally spoken with Paul uhl and he has helped me setup a dmc controller with chase bliss pedals, same with morning star, and native instruments (both maschine and komplete kontrol)as long as you are a paying customer they provide detailed instructions on how to get third party VSTs functioning as well as midi and daw integration. The last thing you want is to be doing research and TRYING to figure it out own your own only to be redirected to a manufacturer forum that has people telling others to figure it out by themselves and act as if you are a dim witted unrealistic fool asking for asking for help.

I understand midi is a protocol and isn’t made by fractal but I can only keep giving examples of precedents set by other companies referring to the exact same thing. Wether someone else thinks it’s the manufacturers job or not is a moot point because obviously other companies believe it is under their responsibilities. I also don’t care if one has five posts or 5 thousand everyone’s view is valid unless it’s just a non helpful pointless post. We all paid for the hardware. It’s not really up to forum goers to dictate what is acceptable job related tasks for the proprietors of the company. It is our job to ask questions and get help, not to get belittled just for asking

I’ve read up as much as I can from guides I understand how midicworks but something specific such as setting looper functions on a mission ep3 foot pedal was all I was inquiring about and if it could have been found and figured out by me I obviously wouldn’t have bothered posting
 
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yek

Legend!
If you have a question about MIDI or assigning switches to the Looper etc., please ask away (in a new thread) and I'm sure you'll get adequate and helpful answers. This is a devoted and helpful community.
 

unix-guy

Legend!
I was just not appreciating being talked to like I’m a fool or patronized.
Here's the thing, though: nobody was talking to YOU.

You revived an old thread and proceeded to tell people how things should be and throw names around.

This is most definitely not the way to get help.

This forum is all about help. I help lots of people every day.

You didn't ask for help...
 
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