How to integrate Axe with two channel amp?

Dirty145

Inspired
I’m looking into a hybrid setup where I run the axe in the loop or potentially 4CM. What is the solution for amps that don’t have midi when you want to integrate amp channel switching into your fx presets?
 
I would rely on the Axe-FX preamps, for more versatility (guitar connected to Axe-Fx In), and use the amp power stage only
 
For my personal preference, I would get a FRFR system. Otherwise I would be limited to the tone of a 2x12 CAB with the chosen speakers.
I currently have been using either a Xitone active wedge or QSC 10.2 for monitoring. The other guitarist runs a tube amp/pedalboard rig and I feel like it’s tough to get a good balance, since I have no stage wash. He has his amp firing out and is also mic’d up.
 
I’m looking into a hybrid setup where I run the axe in the loop or potentially 4CM. What is the solution for amps that don’t have midi when you want to integrate amp channel switching into your fx presets?
The solution is a Midi channel switcher, like those from RJM. Midi goes to the switcher, the switcher has either relay or whatever interface the amp uses. Can get expensive. The Axe is designed to go full range or use through a power amp like you mentioned, and handle all the different types of tones. So maybe your amp could be a backup or a different rig :)
 
I have an AXE 3, a real BE100 and a BOSS WAZA TAE. I have the AXE3 going into the BE100 with the 4CM. Normal 4CM with effects pre and post of the BE100. I exclusively live on the BE channel. Now here is where the fun comes in. With the change of a patch you can now have any AMP SIM at your disposal and the amp sim will come out of your normal speaker cabinets being powered by the power amp of your real amp. I have the BOSS TAE for attenuation and some post delay.

I can run the BE channel on one patch and a clean patch on another scene using the AMP SIM's of the AXE 3 or I can pull in say a 5153 sim.

I am not changing channels on my BE100 but using the real amp and amp sims combined to make the ultimate analog and digital solution.
 
I have an AXE 3, a real BE100 and a BOSS WAZA TAE. I have the AXE3 going into the BE100 with the 4CM. Normal 4CM with effects pre and post of the BE100. I exclusively live on the BE channel. Now here is where the fun comes in. With the change of a patch you can now have any AMP SIM at your disposal and the amp sim will come out of your normal speaker cabinets being powered by the power amp of your real amp. I have the BOSS TAE for attenuation and some post delay.

I can run the BE channel on one patch and a clean patch on another scene using the AMP SIM's of the AXE 3 or I can pull in say a 5153 sim.

I am not changing channels on my BE100 but using the real amp and amp sims combined to make the ultimate analog and digital solution.
What does that grid even look like? Lol
 
Just so you are clear I run the AXE 3 into my BE100 4CM.

For a 4CM patch it will look like the following (the grid will have 2 separate lines see below):

In 1 >>>pre effects>>>Out 3
In 3 >>>>> Post Effects >>>>>Out 1

For patches where I use the AXE 3 Amp Sims my grid will look like:

In 1 >>>Pre Effects>>>Amp Sim>>>>Post Effects >>> Out 1

There are many videos on line as to how to connect the AXE to your amp head using the 4CM. Leon Todd has some good ones and shows you how to set up your grid.

This way in version 1 I am hearing the real BE100 tube head. Version 2 I am hearing any of the AXE 3's Amp Sims come through my real cabinets.

You can easily insert a Cab block on either options if you are using an FRFR solution or to FOH. I can get away with this as I have the BOSS WAZA TAE in the mix as well.
 
I use this l'il puppy to switch channels on 2 non-midi tube amps (amp pres available to select as a patch's pre, and power sections available to send output to).
1694789801453.jpeg
 
Last edited:
@sprint I've got one of those as well. It works really well.
ya - last amp I bought I was really wanting to have midi channel control built in - then I realized that making on-board midi channel switching a prerequisite was eliminating 3/4+ of all the amp choices out there. A separate midi switcher does the trick and means I can have any amp come along and be midi switchable within my setup.
 
ya - last amp I bought I was really wanting to have midi channel control built in - then I realized that making on-board midi channel switching a prerequisite was eliminating 3/4+ of all the amp choices out there. A separate midi switcher does the trick and means I can have any amp come along and be midi switchable within my setup.
Woah, this may be the ticket. Just so I understand, you can use this with any amp and then integrate into the axe fx presets, so that you can change amp channels with scene changes?
 
Woah, this may be the ticket. Just so I understand, you can use this with any amp and then integrate into the axe fx presets, so that you can change amp channels with scene changes?
I described this in my earlier post. I wouldn’t say “any amp” because different amps use different footswitch or channel change protocols. Many use a 1/4” relay, while some use a specific, unique plug/interface (I’m looking at you older Blackstar amps).

By now, someone has probably made an adaptor or similar to interface with most amps, but there are still some that don’t have a solution.
 
What kind of switcher are you using?? Assuming you’re using a midi switcher, you could use something like the RJM amp gizmo, voodoo lab control switcher, or the suhr micro mini; best option for a one head rig imo
 
I use this l'il puppy to switch channels on 2 non-midi tube amps (amp pres available to select as a patch's pre, and power sections available to send output to).
View attachment 105808
This or the RJM Mini Amp Gizmo (discontinued but available used) are the options you want if your amp uses a non-MIDI DIN connector. Usually tihs is on amps with multi-function stuff like fx loop on/off with channel switching etc. Otherwise the Voodoo Lab or Suhr Micro Midi are what you want for TRS control.

I used the RJM to control the Bogner Goldfinger 45 SL I had and it worked very nicely and was easy to setup. I had to build the interface cable myself out of a spare MIDI cable but that turned out just fine and RJM will provide you with a schematic on their forum or can sell the cable to you directly. If space is a concern the RJM is a good option, it's about the size of a small Strymon pedal and could probably fit under a pedalboard too if needed. Even though it's discontinued there's no real issue using it as it doesn't need fw updates or anything like that and everything is programmable right from the unit itself.

Note that for Mesa amps you might need a special cable with more hardware as there seems to be a need for some voltage conversion or something.

Even though these work well, personally I won't buy another multi-function amp that does not support MIDI control. Proprietary control schemes are stupid.
 
The solution is a Midi channel switcher, like those from RJM. Midi goes to the switcher, the switcher has either relay or whatever interface the amp uses. Can get expensive. The Axe is designed to go full range or use through a power amp like you mentioned, and handle all the different types of tones. So maybe your amp could be a backup or a different rig :)

Came here to post this. I use(d) an RJM amp switcher for years with a host of amps including a PT100, Mesa boogies etc. You send midi from the AxeFX to a midi block, the RJM amp switcher takes the midi (PC messages) and then switches the relay using a TRS cable. Seamless, easy to program and a good way to add midi functionality to an amp without midi.

This is assuming your amp would has a relay to switch between channels, as opposed to multiple input amps like a 4-Input marshall or the Mesa Boogie MKI etc.
 
I, many times, use the Fm9 with my Victory Jack head and a 212vv. I do not use a midi channel switcher as I really don’t feel it adds much. So essentially I use the Fm9 as an effects unit pre and post. And as mentioned above you COULD easily insert an amp preamp into the mix and add another channel - but for me I feel it is it easier to use a drive in front of my clean channel. This set up my basically my main set up although there are times based on the job I would use an Fm9 and SS power amp - more FRFR like sometimes with a cab or sometimes direct. The key to 4cm is it keep it simple and clean. A relay switcher is nice if you really needed it. But if it only needs to change your amp channels I personal can navigate with an easy step. If I run into a situation where I need to really go between sounds quickly I just use the clean channel only and use box of crunch or shred distortion in front of my clean amp which have all the Marshall goodness with extra like The Jacks drive channel has. They are very close and since I am already get the foundational bounce from the Jacks Powerstage almost any modified distortion is going to get me 90% close to my gain channel anyway. My preset just cycles through scenes with a layout that has 4 scenes and 5 buttons of effects I could click on/off as needed. There has never been a real world situation I could think of where you would need extra switching. The other thing is if you are going to use the amp as just a power amp it makes a lot more sense to use something more designed for that as 4cm while good is also tricky and can be very noisy as well. I would say I use this set almost 80% of the time. Prior to this I did use a Mesa T,C 50 which did have midi when it worked. Midi is not flawless. It can be troubling and it can go down quick on a gig. The Fm9 4cm with my Victory is bulletproof.
 
I, many times, use the Fm9 with my Victory Jack head and a 212vv. I do not use a midi channel switcher as I really don’t feel it adds much. So essentially I use the Fm9 as an effects unit pre and post. And as mentioned above you COULD easily insert an amp preamp into the mix and add another channel - but for me I feel it is it easier to use a drive in front of my clean channel. This set up my basically my main set up although there are times based on the job I would use an Fm9 and SS power amp - more FRFR like sometimes with a cab or sometimes direct. The key to 4cm is it keep it simple and clean. A relay switcher is nice if you really needed it. But if it only needs to change your amp channels I personal can navigate with an easy step. If I run into a situation where I need to really go between sounds quickly I just use the clean channel only and use box of crunch or shred distortion in front of my clean amp which have all the Marshall goodness with extra like The Jacks drive channel has. They are very close and since I am already get the foundational bounce from the Jacks Powerstage almost any modified distortion is going to get me 90% close to my gain channel anyway. My preset just cycles through scenes with a layout that has 4 scenes and 5 buttons of effects I could click on/off as needed. There has never been a real world situation I could think of where you would need extra switching. The other thing is if you are going to use the amp as just a power amp it makes a lot more sense to use something more designed for that as 4cm while good is also tricky and can be very noisy as well. I would say I use this set almost 80% of the time. Prior to this I did use a Mesa T,C 50 which did have midi when it worked. Midi is not flawless. It can be troubling and it can go down quick on a gig. The Fm9 4cm with my Victory is bulletproof.
I see your point on this, but I feel that would defeat the purpose of a channel switching amp, right? In this scenario, I would probably just use a single channel clean pedal platform amp and then use the drive block for various dirty tones. This is what I did with my analog rig through a Deluxe Reverb.
 
Back
Top Bottom