How to cut out the mud on palm mutes

Tahoebrian5

Fractal Fanatic
I'm experimenting with down tuned riffs. Kinda djenty. Anyway how do you get the boomy mud to cut tight for staccato type stuff. My normal patch is a muddy mess.
 
I think most folks will probably tell you the same thing, cut bass going into the amp, add it afterwards with either the GEQ inside the amp block or a PEQ after the amp block. Also use the lowcut in the cab block. I find for my tastes(metal), I pretty much have the bass tone control on all of my amp blocks at 1 or lower, most of them it's completely off.
 
Another option is adjusting the EQ curve on the Speaker page on the amp. I have done that a couple times for my more metallic tones. Helps a lot on Rectifier amps I've found.
 
Here is the top secret trick: what you wanna do is cut the low end before the gain stages, then bring it back in after. So, basically an easy way to do it would be to add a Filter Block, (or you could use an EQ or better yet a PEQ) before any Drive pedals and the Amp. Use the Low Cut on if you’re using the Filter Block set it somewhere around/between 60-120, if you’re using a PEQ you can be a bit more surgical so you might want to opt for that & you can pinpoint where you’re flubbing & Cut that right out. Then you put another PEQ After the Amp and add the low end back in to make everything nice & thick again. You could also use the Amps EQ section as long as it set for Post Power Amp.
Also the Cut Switch on the Basic Page in the Amp Block can be very helpful here as well too. Sometimes less on the Bass control on the Amp and a little more on the Deep can clean up the low without losing all low end. But it’s the post EQ that’ll put the lows back in that’ll do it.
What you have to avoid is sending a lot of low end frequency thru the Preamp gain stages, that’s when things get muddy, undefined & a mess. So you take a lot of it out, then bring it back in after.
 
Here is the top secret trick: what you wanna do is cut the low end before the gain stages, then bring it back in after. So, basically an easy way to do it would be to add a Filter Block, (or you could use an EQ or better yet a PEQ) before any Drive pedals and the Amp. Use the Low Cut on if you’re using the Filter Block set it somewhere around/between 60-120, if you’re using a PEQ you can be a bit more surgical so you might want to opt for that & you can pinpoint where you’re flubbing & Cut that right out. Then you put another PEQ After the Amp and add the low end back in to make everything nice & thick again. You could also use the Amps EQ section as long as it set for Post Power Amp.
Also the Cut Switch on the Basic Page in the Amp Block can be very helpful here as well too. Sometimes less on the Bass control on the Amp and a little more on the Deep can clean up the low without losing all low end. But it’s the post EQ that’ll put the lows back in that’ll do it.
What you have to avoid is sending a lot of low end frequency thru the Preamp gain stages, that’s when things get muddy, undefined & a mess. So you take a lot of it out, then bring it back in after.

I am also interested in the op question and this is great info. The whole PEQ thing confuses me a bit - could you provide an example patch that shows how you have the PEQ's set?
 
I am also interested in the op question and this is great info. The whole PEQ thing confuses me a bit - could you provide an example patch that shows how you have the PEQ's set?
Every pickup is going to have a different EQ curve, but I'd start with a peaking EQ with a couple db boost, relatively narrow Q and sweep it from about 1k up to about 1.8k. You'll probably find that character in there somewhere. HPF at about 80-150hz.
 
For that style, the trick is rolling off HUGE amounts of low-end (like the Cab block's high-pass at 200, for instance), and having that space be occupied by the comparatively cleaner bass guitar.

The electric guitar is more percussive and high-mids than anything.

General tips:
1) Boost mids and cut bass before the Amp block
2) Use the Gate block, put it after the amp, and sidechain it to the Axe input.
3) Low master volume. Depending on how "djentle" you want to be, you can just turn Sag (aka the power amp) all the way off.

You may have some success with using the Andy Sneap C4 trick, wherein you use a multiband compressor to compress only the woofy low-mids, where palm mutes tend to cause a big build up.
 
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Thanks for all the help guys. It's getting better. I'm running an 808 into the HBE and mishas v30 tight ir mix and damn it's sounding good.
 
Along with everything else that has been suggested, on occasion you may find that using a MultiBand Compressor block can help if you tweak the low band correctly which is something I picked up from an old thread on here. That way you can retain some girth in normal playing but prevent excessive 'whump' when palm-muting.
 
Cut 250hz -2dB
That is the usual "mud area". You can use the parametric EQ in the amp block to do it. This always opens up the tone a bit.
 
Don't cut with EQ. When you're not palm muting, you might lose some low end if you do.
Use a multiband comp, only activate the low mid band and set the threshold so it only kicks in when palm muting.
 
Here is the top secret trick: what you wanna do is cut the low end before the gain stages, then bring it back in after. So, basically an easy way to do it would be to add a Filter Block, (or you could use an EQ or better yet a PEQ) before any Drive pedals and the Amp. Use the Low Cut on if you’re using the Filter Block set it somewhere around/between 60-120, if you’re using a PEQ you can be a bit more surgical so you might want to opt for that & you can pinpoint where you’re flubbing & Cut that right out. Then you put another PEQ After the Amp and add the low end back in to make everything nice & thick again. You could also use the Amps EQ section as long as it set for Post Power Amp.
Also the Cut Switch on the Basic Page in the Amp Block can be very helpful here as well too. Sometimes less on the Bass control on the Amp and a little more on the Deep can clean up the low without losing all low end. But it’s the post EQ that’ll put the lows back in that’ll do it.
What you have to avoid is sending a lot of low end frequency thru the Preamp gain stages, that’s when things get muddy, undefined & a mess. So you take a lot of it out, then bring it back in after.


This is basically what I've heard John Petrucci say about getting his thick TIGHT tone.
Mark series heads, bass control way down then add it back with the graphic...same principle as stated above.
 
This is basically what I've heard John Petrucci say about getting his thick TIGHT tone.
Mark series heads, bass control way down then add it back with the graphic...same principle as stated above.
That applies, as you mentioned, to the Mark series amps, because their tone stack is located before the preamp. As a result, the BMT-controls on those amps sort of act as gain knobs for their according spectrum.
 
That applies, as you mentioned, to the Mark series amps, because their tone stack is located before the preamp. As a result, the BMT-controls on those amps sort of act as gain knobs for their according spectrum.

No doubt. I still have a Mark IV and I find the treble control especially has a BIG effect on gain.
 
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