How to create routing for 4CM preset which also allows also using a Cab from AXE FX II?

[Lkdog]

I know I have been bugging people with questions here lately, but I am now finally using the capability of the AXE FX II more than ever. Amazing unit.

Here is the situation. I think it is pretty straightforward and hopefully can be done, but I have no idea how to proceed. I will try and be clear in my question.

1) I have a real amp I sue on occasion (CA Triptik) that I often run into a Torpedo Loadbox for attenuation.
2) Works great for lower volume playing.
3) The Torpedo also has a Line out I can run into the AXE FX II LEFT MONO INPUT 1 in back and use any of the Cabs in the AXE FX II.
4) I created a simple preset with a Cab and Reverb. Works great!
5) I set the Input 1 Left Select to REAR when I do this.

Now for the more complex issue........


5) Recently with help here I am trying the 4CM method of using the AXE FX II for effects only with the Carol Ann.
5) Other than a minor hum issue that is all working well and I am using my 1X12 Cab.
6) I have attached the preset snapshot. It is nothing special. Comp>Wah>Drive>FX LOOP>Delay>Chorus>Reverb.

7) What I would like to be able to do is run a Line out from the Torpedo Loadbox like before into the AXE FX II LEFT MONO INPUT 1 in back and also then use an AXE FX II CAB.


Is there a way to do this?? It allows for totally silent playing when needed and direct silent recordng with different CABS on the real amp. Pretty handy.

I thought I read somewhere where you can have both the Front and Rear inputs working somehow.
I am kind of clueless at this point and how to create a preset that might work.

I am just pretty proud of myself I got the 4CM thing working with the FX Loop in the preset. LOL.

Thanks in advance if anyone can point me in right direction.

 

[Lkdog]

I just realized this is likely more complicated than I thought.
I am using the Left OUTPUT 1 when I do 4CM to go into the CA Amp guitar input.

I would have to be able have the Right Output 1 go to my mixer with the separate final signal which would be the CA amp with the effects chain from the AXE applied out to the Loadbox and then routed back through the AXE (into INPUT 2 Right I assume) to grab a CAB from the AXE. The Right Output 1 would then feed my Mackie mixer and subsequently my powered monitors (and headphone jack on the mixer)- but most importantly the mixer feeds a pair of analog outs into my Scarlett soundcard if I wanted to record.



I think I would be better off grabbing an old used 11 Rack unit and feeding the 4CM signal from the AXE FX II and CA amp/Loadbox into that and using a CAB sim from the 11 rack and then into my mixer if I wanted to have this work.

My head hurts.

 

[Bakerman]

Input 2R would make the most sense for receiving the Torpedo output.

Input 2 mode = stereo

Branch from FXL to two vol/pan blocks w/ "input select" set L (before effects) and R (before cab). You may want to set vol/pan bypass modes to "mute" to prevent a feedback loop if 2nd one is bypassed unintentionally.

Balance these rows L/R in output block as well.

Do you plan to play through the cab and monitors at the same time often? If not, you might want to consider separate presets for monitors. Bypass the amp's effect loop and you can use a simpler routing with (optionally) stereo effects after FXL block, XLR outputs to mixer.

 

[EduFiend]

Thanks for commenting on my thread, although the objectives are different, the issue we are concerned with still remains: whether it is possible to reroute the different balanced and unbalanced and even their own respective L&R outputs within a single I/O for different purposes. Dear AxeFx masters, if you could chime in or give us a handy link please, that would be great. Thanks


In your case, here's my (very-catchy-twenty-)two cents. They're not really questions/answers/or_anything_in_between but it seems you could use a different viewpoint. And so would I, for that matter...

First of all, let's see the culprits and what they are supposed to do:

CA (preamp/amp)
Cab
TP (attenuator/load box) (post_power_amp/cab)
AxFx (preamp/pre-postFx/cabSim) *in your case

From what I gather from your OP, you are trying to bypass all Amp Blocks and using the "real&physical" pre&power amp Carol Ann (CA) as your main/only tone source. Basically, you want to use the AxeFx as a pre/post effects processor and cab sim and with a flick of a switch, make "attenuated" noise/go-completely-silent (headphones jacked into mixer). Am I headed in the right direction?

On your second post, you mention you are using Output 1's Left Out (Balanced or Unbalanced?) to the CA's Input, but I believe you meant (or I reckon you should be using) Output 2's Left Out to go there, since that is the unit's "Fx Loop Send". Then, you also mention...

I would have to be able have the Right Output 1 go to my mixer with the separate final signal which would be the CA amp with the effects chain from the AXE applied out to the Loadbox and then routed back through the AXE (into INPUT 2 Right I assume) to grab a CAB from the AXE.

Pre-Power Amp Section of the issue:

I reckon there's no need to attenuate/accentuate any levels whilst using the CA as a preamp and the TP in between. In my mind, it kind of beats the purpose of having that much control over I/O's within the AxeFx's environment. If I'm understanding your routing correctly, you use a few "pre" effects to "saturate" the CA right (which usually takes a fair amount of dBs), send the signal to the "echoing" effects and then want to use a cabSim for the interface and without cabSim for the CA's "Fx Loop Return". Why would you need to attenuate it again? Just set the levels right whilst direct to your interface and then, while using the TP between the "real" power amp and cab, turn down its master volume.

PS: I don't know your whole routing scheme so bear with me.

Routing Issues:

Now, here is where our concerns mingle:

We both want to know whether we can route one sidechain to either L-&/or-R a) balanced outs and b) unbalanced outs within a single Output section. I'm no expert in AxeFx, nor I personally know the Torpedo, that's why I'm asking and contributing, but it seems to me that you can't use different mono signals within the same Output. The manual states that it's either summed stereo to mono, dual mono, or half stereo. Please correct me if I'm wrong, as I mentioned, I don't own it yet so I'm not sure.

Or, may I suggest, if what we both want is plausible, then you would want to have the separate final signal "Dry-PreCab" signal coming out of bal/unbal Output 1, and then the "Wet-PostCab" signal coming out of Output 2 (or the two remaining stereo outs from Output 1); sort of a Wet/Dry rig, if you will. Which, by the way, is sort of what I'm looking for. (Or vice-versa)

Best of luck, I'll be checking up on this thread, and thanks to future contributors

 

[Lkdog]

Input 2R would make the most sense for receiving the Torpedo output.

Input 2 mode = stereo

Branch from FXL to two vol/pan blocks w/ "input select" set L (before effects) and R (before cab). You may want to set vol/pan bypass modes to "mute" to prevent a feedback loop if 2nd one is bypassed unintentionally.

Balance these rows L/R in output block as well.

Do you plan to play through the cab and monitors at the same time often? If not, you might want to consider separate presets for monitors. Bypass the amp's effect loop and you can use a simpler routing with (optionally) stereo effects after FXL block, XLR outputs to mixer.

Thanks for reply. I actually think I kind of understand your suggestion.
Will work on it tomorrow night when I get home.

 

[Lkdog]

Thanks for commenting on my thread, although the objectives are different, the issue we are concerned with still remains: whether it is possible to reroute the different balanced and unbalanced and even their own respective L&R outputs within a single I/O for different purposes. Dear AxeFx masters, if you could chime in or give us a handy link please, that would be great. Thanks


In your case, here's my (very-catchy-twenty-)two cents. They're not really questions/answers/or_anything_in_between but it seems you could use a different viewpoint. And so would I, for that matter...

First of all, let's see the culprits and what they are supposed to do:

CA (preamp/amp)
Cab
TP (attenuator/load box) (post_power_amp/cab)
AxFx (preamp/pre-postFx/cabSim) *in your case

From what I gather from your OP, you are trying to bypass all Amp Blocks and using the "real&physical" pre&power amp Carol Ann (CA) as your main/only tone source. Basically, you want to use the AxeFx as a pre/post effects processor and cab sim and with a flick of a switch, make "attenuated" noise/go-completely-silent (headphones jacked into mixer). Am I headed in the right direction?

On your second post, you mention you are using Output 1's Left Out (Balanced or Unbalanced?) to the CA's Input, but I believe you meant (or I reckon you should be using) Output 2's Left Out to go there, since that is the unit's "Fx Loop Send". Then, you also mention...



Pre-Power Amp Section of the issue:

I reckon there's no need to attenuate/accentuate any levels whilst using the CA as a preamp and the TP in between. In my mind, it kind of beats the purpose of having that much control over I/O's within the AxeFx's environment. If I'm understanding your routing correctly, you use a few "pre" effects to "saturate" the CA right (which usually takes a fair amount of dBs), send the signal to the "echoing" effects and then want to use a cabSim for the interface and without cabSim for the CA's "Fx Loop Return". Why would you need to attenuate it again? Just set the levels right whilst direct to your interface and then, while using the TP between the "real" power amp and cab, turn down its master volume.

PS: I don't know your whole routing scheme so bear with me.

Routing Issues:

Now, here is where our concerns mingle:

We both want to know whether we can route one sidechain to either L-&/or-R a) balanced outs and b) unbalanced outs within a single Output section. I'm no expert in AxeFx, nor I personally know the Torpedo, that's why I'm asking and contributing, but it seems to me that you can't use different mono signals within the same Output. The manual states that it's either summed stereo to mono, dual mono, or half stereo. Please correct me if I'm wrong, as I mentioned, I don't own it yet so I'm not sure.

Or, may I suggest, if what we both want is plausible, then you would want to have the separate final signal "Dry-PreCab" signal coming out of bal/unbal Output 1, and then the "Wet-PostCab" signal coming out of Output 2 (or the two remaining stereo outs from Output 1); sort of a Wet/Dry rig, if you will. Which, by the way, is sort of what I'm looking for. (Or vice-versa)

Best of luck, I'll be checking up on this thread, and thanks to future contributors

Wow. Thanks for the detailed response!
I think Bakerman's idea has merit for both of us in terms of what we would like to do.

Your thoughts all make sense, but when using 4CM the outputs from the Axe physically I think need to go to specific destinations. Don't ask me why but Output 1L on Axe goes to tube amp input and Output 2L on Axe goes to tube amp Return.

EDIT- I incorrectly stated how I have it hooked up. Sorry for confusion.

Running Output 2L to AMP INPUT, and Output 1L to Effects Loop RETURN on CA Triptik..
CA Triptik EFX Loop Send back to AXE Input 2L using standard TS cable.

 

[Bakerman]

Output 1L on Axe goes to tube amp input and Output 2L on Axe goes to tube amp Return.

Normal 4CM connections would be the opposite of that.

 

[Lkdog]

Normal 4CM connections would be the opposite of that.

I mistakenly stated my setup. You are correct.
Here is how I have things routed.

Running Output 2L to AMP INPUT, and Output 1L to Effects Loop RETURN on CA Triptik..
CA Triptik EFX Loop Send back to AXE Input 2L using standard TS cable.


Will let you know how things go later when I create the new preset.

Thanks!

 

[Lkdog]

OK. I followed the directions from above: I have uploaded the preset file.

Input 2R would make the most sense for receiving the Torpedo output.
Input 2 mode = stereo
Branch from FXL to two vol/pan blocks w/ "input select" set L (before effects) and R (before cab). You may want to set vol/pan bypass modes to "mute" to prevent a feedback loop if 2nd one is bypassed unintentionally.
Balance these rows L/R in output block as well.


When I do not engage the EFX LOOP on real amp I do get sound with the CAB coming through an output on OUTPUT 1 Right.Some Progress!!!
The Drive pedal in the preset works also.
There is a tiny bit of bleed through of the EFX in the FX loop even though I do not have them engaged in the real amp.

I have OUTPUT 1 Mode set to Stereo.Dunno if that matters.
I have INPUT 1 Mode set to LEFT only.

When I engage the EFX Loop on the real amp to activate the Reverb and Delay and Chorus I get a really loud buzz as if I am overloading the signal.


I did set both the Vol/Pan blocks to mute.

I am not sure I understand what "Balance these rows L/R in output block as well." means or if I have the routing to the OUTPUT Block correct.

If you can take a look at preset maybe something sticks out.

Also- if you can tell me how to make the preset show up as a picture in this post it would save time for you guys generously helping out a newbie here.

I feel like I am close here. LOL.

 

[Bakerman]

I am not sure I understand what "Balance these rows L/R in output block as well." means or if I have the routing to the OUTPUT Block correct.

In the output block set row 2 pan (balance) left, row 3 pan right. Those being centered was probably the reason for the feedback/buzz you mentioned.

The routing looks fine. You might want to set Vol/pan 1's "pan R" parameter to default (+100) and scene 1's main level to 0 dB. (They're just increasing level as set now. Also realize any "main" slider gain setting will be applied twice on the full signal path to mixer/monitors.)

 

[Lkdog]

OK...I went into the OUTPUT block and panned Level 2 left and Level 3 Right. See attached JPEG.
I think I did that right.
I have since changed the output level down to 0 from 4 db.

Works great now.
Thank you very much for your help.
I could have never done this on my own.

One thing I also did is run the Bal Output 1R out to the mixer and then the XLR Output 1R also to the mixer so I have dual mono going to the mixer and subsequently > headphones and FRFR monitors and soundcard.

All sounds great.

 

[Rex]

Glad you got it worked out. @Bakerman is a supremely helpful guy. But this has me confused:

One thing I also did is run the Bal Output 1R out to the mixer and then the XLR Output 1R also to the mixer so I have dual mono going to the mixer and subsequently > headphones and FRFR monitors and soundcard.

Bal Output 1R and XLR Output 1R are the same connector. Even if they weren't, what's the advantage of running the same signal to your mixer twice? If you want dual mono out of your mixer, you can just pan the channel to center.

 

[Lkdog]

Glad you got it worked out. @Bakerman is a supremely helpful guy. But this has me confused:


Bal Output 1R and XLR Output 1R are the same connector. Even if they weren't, what's the advantage of running the same signal to your mixer twice? If you want dual mono out of your mixer, you can just pan the channel to center.

Because I am a slow learner! LOL.

I had been running a L and R out from my Axe to a channel with separate L/R inputs on my Mackie 1202 VLZ.

I just realized I can just plug the Output R from the AXE into one of the MIC channels on mixer and it comes out as dual mono.