how to control synth notes with midi controller

Ant Music

Ant Music

Fractal Fanatic
ok i have an idea. i've been mucking around with the synth block and i switched the pitch tracking off to generate a synth oscillation. i got to thinking it'd be great to control which notes the synth generates with midi switches on my gordius. admittedly i am not that advanced with the controllers in the axe fx so i am wndrn if there is a good way to do this? i think this could be a really good thing and since we don't have a bass player in my band i could get a lot out of this. thanks...
 
External assigned to synth shift (or freq. but I'd use shift), switches sending various values for that CC. Trial and error with modifier scale until a certain amount of CC change is as close as possible to one half step. Imagine you decided on 4 CC steps as the goal for one half step and set up values of 0 and 48 on a switch or two. If you adjusted scale until those switches produce an octave, then values of 4 8 12 etc. should form an in-tune chromatic scale. Use freq. and tune controls to shift the range & fine tune.

Sysex messages (if the Gordius allows this) would be another way but once you got the CC method set up it might be easier to set up new groups of notes in various presets, remembering multiples of 4 or whatever equal half steps.
 
Interesting question indeed!

@Bakerman, would you like to elaborate more on how you´re thinking (and explained it in your post). I didn´t manage to follow your thoughts... :oops:

I messed around with the synth block last time I were at my rehearsal space, but didn´t get a grip about some of the parameters aviable. Is the synth shift parameter aimed to be used when one wants to control the synth pitch externally?

I haven´t looked into external modifier and their modifier scale, but I suppose they´re same as i e the LFO: values expressed in percent. That is quite confusing when controllers most often shows their output value in midi values (0-127). IMHO, it gets even more confusing when pitch often is expressed in cents, and I guess most of us familiar with effect processors think that way about pitch anyway. I guess thats why I didn´t succeed in following your explainations...

Off topic (but similar thought/question):

I once tried to make an (external) automatic pitch controller to use with my TC G-major. But realised that it wasn´t possible due to that the pitch voice are expressed in cents, and covered the whole range (4800 cents) while midi values were 0-127. That is: 4800/127 = 37,80 cent (at each midi value step of increase/decrease). That didn´t sound good... at all...

Therefore I got interested in your answer, not only for the synth block in the Ultra... perhaps you´ve even offered a "solution" to try with the pitch shifter of my G-major.

/Mike
 
Shift normally transposes the voice in half steps but with a modifier attached it's just like controlling freq except with a smaller range (still 4 octaves so fine for setting up bass notes). I guess it's not really important to use shift instead of freq. One might allow getting slightly closer to perfect half steps by chance.

The reasons for adjusting scale & offset are due to the same thing you described about the G-Major. 127 steps mapped to 4800 cents doesn't allow actual half steps. If you reduce the range the CC can move through there should be some setting where you can produce intervals close enough to 100 cents for some change in the CC value.
 
I did some math and set this up, haven't tested it though. External 1 is assigned to freq. so change that if trying a CC set for a different external. Assuming Axe-Edit displays accurate values this should change pitch in (close enough to) 1/3-semitone intervals for each CC value starting at A0. So multiples of 3 produce half steps: 0 = A0, 3 = A#0, 6 = B0, etc.
 
wow man thanks so much for your help. i understand what you mean regarding getting the scale right to produce 1/2 steps. thats cool.

my gordius does send sysex msgs but that is something i know nothing about. basically i want a preset set up so that when i open it the 1st four switches on my gordius are synth notes. i don't need a full chromatic scale on my midi controller because i would set the pitch to be song specific. so if you know how i can set this up that'd be awesome.
 
No sysex needed for the preset above. The CC value sent will determine the note. Not having a Gordius unit, that's about all the detail I can give on how to set things up--various values of that external's CC are what will produce different notes. If it can step through several values on one switch, maybe you'd want to do that at times instead of one switch per note.
 
hmmmm.... yeah this is gonna be tricky. it is a shame you can't assign more than one controller then it would be easy. i'll bet ya there is a way to do it. usually is the case with the axe fx. i'd prefer to not be cycling notes with one switch. it'd be best if they were different switches. the gordius is pretty awesome with what it can do ad the type of msgs it can send.
 
@Bakerman, cool and thank you for that. I´ll experiment and see what this may end up. A bit sad that my G-major recently gave up (just shows blank screen on power up), I haven´t managed to fix it (yet?)...

@Geamala, you may try to reach Ossanddust here on this forum via pm. Or if there is any way to steer his attention to this thread? He may give some hints of how you could set it up... I think more Gordius users may benefit of it...

/Mike
 
miketheman said:
you may try to reach Ossanddust here on this forum via pm. Or if there is any way to steer his attention to this thread?
Click to expand...

PM me and I'll be there ;-)

I have no experience at all with the Axe-FX synth, looks like a fun idea to use the Axe-FX as a stand-alone (not guitar-controlled) synth... So I guess the main problem to solve is to find the correct CC values to use for all notes - through trial-and-error. After that, it should be pretty easy to have a setup sending the correct CC values, which may be different for each song. Just one of the many possible approaches :
- have a few dedicated "Bass note" switches, for instance in the Direct1 or Direct2 bank (always a single click away)
- these note presets each have (at least) a CC message which uses a "variable" as value (something like Pitch A, Pitch B, Pitch C, Pitch D).
- Then you can modify the variable value of these CC messages for each song. Scan the manual for use of "data variables"
- You can combine this with the use of a "default preset" for each song. Such default preset is selected automatically and can be used to "initialize" the song, by selecting the main sound, setting a Clock BPM for instance, and also initialize those Pitch values for the bass notes in that song.

As mentioned this is just one of the possible approaches..
 
thanks so much for your reply, like a super hero hearing my cry for help,

ok you lost me at "direct 1 or direct 2 bank". i've had my gordius for a few months now but i honestly don't think i've ever used the direct bank. what is it used for and how does it work? i'm very sorry about this but you might have to speak to me like a retard for a bit till i follow where you're at. i am excited though cause it does seem from what you are saying that this will be possible. maybe if you could unpack what exactly you are getting at or maybe PM me or post a patch or something. thanks ant.
 
I use the synth as stand-alone, too, to lay some pad sounds underneath the rhythm guitar playing.

I wish there was an easier way to dial in the frequency that actually "hits" the note.
To me it's peculiar how the frequency values are divided. E.g. it's not possible to set freq to 440 Hz get an A and
then use shift for setting the actual note.
The closest I could get to was a low B, which limits the the usable range of the shift, because it only made sense to shift upwards.

BTW thanks to Bakerman, I'll experiment with what you wrote.
I'd like to have an easy way of changing the note on the fly via Control Chance or sysex.
I'm a Gordius user, too, so there're no programming limits :mrgreen:
 
geamala said:
thanks so much for your reply, like a super hero hearing my cry for help,

ok you lost me at "direct 1 or direct 2 bank". i've had my gordius for a few months now but i honestly don't think i've ever used the direct bank. what is it used for and how does it work? i'm very sorry about this but you might have to speak to me like a retard for a bit till i follow where you're at. i am excited though cause it does seem from what you are saying that this will be possible. maybe if you could unpack what exactly you are getting at or maybe PM me or post a patch or something. thanks ant.
Click to expand...

The Direct banks are the banks that you can reach by pressing D1 or D2.
Those are just normal banks, but always within one-click-reach.

I use them to be able to get quickly to common IA's (switches for effects blocks such as phaser, OD etc.), and to my 10 main amp presets. It's comparable to the Reveal switch in the Fractal MFC-101.
 
yek said:
The Direct banks are the banks that you can reach by pressing D1 or D2.
Those are just normal banks, but always within one-click-reach.

I use them to be able to get quickly to common IA's (switches for effects blocks such as phaser, OD etc.), and to my 10 main amp presets. It's comparable to the Reveal switch in the Fractal MFC-101.
Click to expand...

i figured that the direct banks would be something like that. i have set my D1 and D2 switches to be my tuner and taptempo respectively. i wonder how i would set this up. hmmm this could be cool. so the dorect 1 and 2 are effectively like having another page of IAs?
 
Well, they are what they are, "direct" banks. You can have 'em full of IA switches or anything else.
My set up:
Direct 1 has "system functions": tuner, keypad mode, vol incr/decr
Direct 2 has my go to patches, that I need for jamming or working on new parts/songs
Most of my other (the regular) banks are set up for a certain song, because most of my band's songs are different from
each other, so I need different patches/banks per song.
 
ok i found it in the miscellaneous section of the global setup mine were set up to be prset switches. this could be cool. i'm entering a new world.

anyway back to the topic at hand. lets get those synths cranking!!
 
Sebastian said:
Well, they are what they are, "direct" banks. You can have 'em full of IA switches or anything else.
My set up:
Direct 1 has "system functions": tuner, keypad mode, vol incr/decr
Direct 2 has my go to patches, that I need for jamming or working on new parts/songs
Most of my other (the regular) banks are set up for a certain song, because most of my band's songs are different from
each other, so I need different patches/banks per song.
Click to expand...

sounds like you have your setup running similar to mine with the exception of the direct banks. i use a different bank for each song and each IA switch is set a different part of that song rather than turning individual effects on/off.

anyway back to those synths....
 
ossandust said:
So I guess the main problem to solve is to find the correct CC values to use for all notes - through trial-and-error. After that, it should be pretty easy to have a setup sending the correct CC values, which may be different for each song. Just one of the many possible approaches...
Click to expand...

ok i think i'm following you now. so when you set that up in the control center pedal setup, you would basically create any number of stompboxes that you require (for the notes that you want to trigger) and your data 2 number (0-127) for each stomp would be set to the corresponding pitch you are after? is this right?
i hope i'm getting this... how exciting?.....
 
geamala said:
ok i think i'm following you now. so when you set that up in the control center pedal setup, you would basically create any number of stompboxes that you require (for the notes that you want to trigger) and your data 2 number (0-127) for each stomp would be set to the corresponding pitch you are after? is this right?
i hope i'm getting this... how exciting?.....
Click to expand...
You're correct, but you have some additional possibilities.
- I mentioned the use of "data variables", because that reduces the number of required stompboxes. With those variables, you can have 4 overall stompboxes for note triggering, and each song can still define a different pitch for each of those 4 stompboxes
- linked to that, I mentioned the use of the "Direct banks", because these are typically used to store a number of presets or stomps which you want to use in any song, without sacrificing switches in each "regular" bank.
- you can group the Note stomps if you always want to play single notes (selecting the next note automatically stops the previous note)
- you can use "momentary effects" instead of stomps if you want to sustain a note as long as you have a switch pressed.
- if you really want to have fun : you can program short riffs, by having a sequence of CC messages with customizable delay in between them - each CC message modifies the pitch. You can use the special "loop" commands in the message stream to repeat the riff contstantly, or a programmable number of times....
Within these loops, you can define the delay in terms of "MIDI beats" instead of absolute delays, and have an incoming MIDI clock define the tempo of your riffs. Or use the built-in MIDI Clock generator, program a certain BPM, and control the Axe-FX or other devices with that clock, in order to have your sounds modulated in the tempo of the riff.
- And so on... ;-)
 
ossandust said:
And so on... ;-)
Click to expand...
O yes, I forgot another cool one... If you search the manual for "sweeps", you will see that you can define different types of sweeps (fast or very slow), which automatically send a series of CC messages with increasing or decreasing value. Or a stomp which sends a stream of increasing values when switched on, and a sweep which goes down again from the value it reached to the bottom value when switched off. If you use that CC sweep to modulate the synth pitch, you can do crazy stuff. I guess.
( and if you're into experimental music : the LG2 also has a "random" function to modify the pitch randomly within a loop. I guess this is over the top... )
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom