How many of you are running stereo to FOH?

Admin M@ said:
Many people will tell you that stereo doesn't work for live audiences but I've heard it work in small and large theaters very convincingly, including effects like auto-pan, doubling, split dry and wet, and more. I've also seen artists grow to the point of playing small arenas, at which point they need to give this up and return to mono.
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Admin M@ said:
You'd be surprised at the number of big artists I work with who play stereo in large venues. It works if the effects are dramatic and intentional such as sweeping pans, hard pingpong, or wide harmonies.
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Great discussion! I can see both points of view. This thread has given me a lot to think about. I may experiment with a stereo mix at home at home and see how it goes. It wouldn't really hurt to give it a go for a few gigs? Thanks again for a healthy thread!
 
It seems that it really comes down to things like whether you have your own FOH engineer and the layout and size of the room.

Back when I ran sound we played some good sized auditoriums (Grady Gammage at A.S.U. a couple times) down to small churches. I knew the bands and could explain the issues and work with them to make it sound good. That's a luxury a lot of bands and FOH engineers don't have.

Some rooms are pathological. There's a casino near here with a nice auditorium, but when they think the crowd is going to be bigger they'll stick the concert into their convention hall which is a long, high room with the stage in the middle of the long wall, which results in absolutely horrible sound, mono or not. The people in front of the stage get beaten by the volume and a resulting slapback echo from the wall behind them, the people on the sides can't discern anything in the sound because of all the echo and the flying rig pointing at the high-priced seats. I suspect their FOH engineers are at the mercy of the venue and/or looked at the room and gave up, or are so burned out they don't give a rat's....

The only effect I use that uses a wide pan is the Rotary block, and it has to be manually engaged in my presets, so it's easy to work around. A few presets use dual cabs and I set them at ±10 left/right. After reviewing the Wiki article I went through my twenty-ish patches and listened in mono to see what they'd sound like, and compared the L->R and L+R settings and was pleased. Probably following the KISS theory is good for presets that are going to be used live, especially when you don't know the sound engineer.
 
chris said:
what's the downside of this?

also, you can have some sounds be mono (same signal sent to 2 channels panned = center) and other sounds in stereo when needed. it's not all or nothing.

and if the crowd themselves will cancel out frequencies and make the mix sound different everywhere, what does that do to a mono signal?
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The downside for me was the sounds I created sounded nothing like they were supposed to in FOH running stereo.
How could it?
I'm a simple guy. Some delay...sometimes a little TINY bit of chorus on the clean sounds.
Other than that...I want my guitar to sound powerful. Tight, focused, articulate.
And that giant sound I could make with 2 cabinets behind me onstage...it simply HAD to be in mono out front to sound the same.
As I said before...my cabs were right behind me and side by side.
I wanted the audience to hear what I was hearing no matter what side of the room they were in.

It's just my own experience.
If you would like to run stereo in a venue playing for a couple of hundred people with the PA speakers 60 to 70 feet apart from each other...that's your choice.

All I'm saying is...I would never do that.
The only thing I want the soundguy to do is take my (now mono) signal from my FM3 and turn it UP! lol
 
I run stereo direct live and use stereo in ears. Wasn’t my choice but I’ll go with stereo since our tech gives me 2 XLRs. :) It sounds fantastic and I enjoy it, but would have no issue or complaints running mono if I had to.
 
WillieD said:
I've been wondering about this. I run mine the same way. Question is, is it a best practice to change the I/O to SUM L+R when going this route?
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The best practice is to know how your presets behave in mono, and to choose the method that works best with them.
 
FOH = MONO!
IEM's = Stereo or Mono
Band Wedges/Side Fills = MONO!
Backline and/or Personal Wedges = Stereo or Mono

Upon further review, the above is for touring professionals, different venue every performance etc.

If you happen to play the same place all the time like PW, or a single venue that's acoustically setup to where the whole audience gets a reasonable stereo image, the stereo to FOH can work assuming the PA is up to the task etc.
 
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Dutch22 said:
I go direct stereo to FOH with my FM3. Its amazing in FOH and in my IEMs! Contact me if you need an assistance.
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Me as well! Worship band - XLR out to FOH. Stereo through my personal mixer and IEM's. That said there are times that I use mono scene, but switch over to a nice stereo ambient scene. Yuge! Good luck!
 
rushfan said:
My monitor setup was stereo when I used FRFR speakers, now I use in-ears and they remain stereo.

My band's our PA system is also stereo, and we always run stereo to any clubs with an in-house PA as well. Makes a big difference, and most people aren't parked in front of one set of mains or the other, so most people get the full effect, especially when I have things set "wide"!

I have been running stereo since the summer of 1991, pre-FractalAudio (I was using ADA at the time, with the split stack!) Back then, there were 2 guitarists, and I was panned L+R in stereo and the other right up the middle, since he didn't use many effects.

Now I am in a Guitar/Bass/Drums/Vocalist band (3 of us sing), so I have a lot more to fill in, and our sound man says the stereo sounds wonderful in this context, especially when I am being overtly stereo effects heavy in some sections.
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Cool! I still have one of those ADA 2 x 12 split stacks. :)
 
rushfan said:
Sold all of my ADA stuff early on last year - speakers to California, MP1 to NYC, stereo power amps to Indiana!
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I sold 2 MP1s about 2-3 years back and wish I had held onto them since they have
appreciated in value so much in the past year to 18 months.
 
la noise said:
I sold 2 MP1s about 2-3 years back and wish I had held onto them since they have
appreciated in value so much in the past year to 18 months.
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I wasn't using them anymore, not sorry I sold them. I sold off all of my tube amps - I wasn't using them, and it has made several people happy, so I'm good!
 
Admin M@ said:
Like so many things, IT DEPENDS. Try it and see hear for yourself.
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...and there's the rub, if you're not in the audience, and if you're not checking the mix from all the various listening areas/angles in addition to the venue's "sweet spots", you don't know whether your stereo FX are pleasing, unheard, or at worst phasing or ruining your tone (even if your patches are mono-compatible), because of course you're at the mercy of the system's time alignment, the system's freq coverage, and the FOH personnel's abilities.

Sure, mono patches can suffer with some of the above issues as well, though generally speaking stereo patches will suffer more.

So, generally speaking, it's typically safer to go mono unless you're intimately familiar with the venue, it's system, and the venue's or your FOH crew.
 
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Maybe those of you running stereo would care to mention what are the general settings that get you send stereo to FOH and more importantly, what blocks and tricks you use that really shine in stereo? Time to step up!
 
chris said:
if that's a great point (which i agree), then the whole "audience doesn't get anything out of stereo" idea goes out the window the same way.

just saying that there isn't a difference between a guitar signal being stereo on its own vs mono signals being panned creatively in the mix. if "one side won't hear things" in one situation, the same applies to the other.

that's why i think the "one side won't hear things" idea isn't really that applicable (again depending on the specifics of the stereo mix).
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The reason a FOH engineer uses panning is to balance volumes coming off the stage. This effort is also the reason many have added center fills, even on smaller stages, to get the mix to audience members not effectively covered by the side arrays or stacks. At FOH, your mission is to get a balanced show to the audience, wherever they are. Though you never 100% succeed, it’s the target, and the normal use and purpose of panning In a live show, as it pertains to the house mix.

What you do in the studio is much like the monitor mix engineer’s job… providing a soundstage and location, adding back a sense of space and direction, especially to in ear monitors. Stereo and mono panning can be very helpful there. It also can provide a more immersive experience when giving a musician his own instrument in stereo in his individual mix, again, especially on IEMs.

Running stereo to the mains is fine, and gives the FOH more tools to use if he needs them. But don’t be surprised if he puts them to center (or close), if he determines that gets the effect to the crowd more completely. Having spent a part of my career on the desk, I’ve had to explain why “stereo ping pong delay become one long delay over here” many times.

It‘s all creative, and my way isn’t the only way, but there is reason and experience behind it. Musicians love stereo and want it. Its a great tool for monitor techs. Stereo is much less useful as an “effect“ at FOH, and instead, panning is a balancing tool to compensate for sound sources coming from the stage into the audience space.

I readily admit the I am not the guy mixing Pink Floyd’s surround sound shows. 😊
 
Akstrat said:
Maybe those of you running stereo would care to mention what are the general settings that get you send stereo to FOH and more importantly, what blocks and tricks you use that really shine in stereo? Time to step up!
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I've been using in Stereo to FOH:
  • Two different CABs totally or slightly panned L/R
  • Chorus
  • Different types of delays
  • Rotary
  • Enhacer
  • Pitch
  • Synth
  • Panner
  • Reverb
The settings vary per song and different sections of the song
 
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