How do you make single strings sound thicker on clean sounds?

trancegodz

trancegodz

Fractal Fanatic
I think the Axe FXIII is the best sounding it has ever been, and I am not trying to bash it.
There is still one missing link though that I have been unable to dial in so far.

I recently broke out my real 66 Super Reverb, Vox AC 30, and Hiwatt 100 and compared them with the presets I'd made for the same amps in the Axe FXIII. In every case on clean sounds the sound of the single strings was thinner on the Axe FXIII. The sound of the real amps was much thicker, fuller, and bigger. I don't notice it as much on distorted sounds.

I've tried EQ and Compression, and very IR I could find that was close to what came in the amps I listed.

I found setting the definition to -1 helped, and I've been experimenting with output compression which seems to help a bit.

Are there any other advanced parameters that might help make the sound of single strings sound bigger and thicker?
 
Just to clarify, are you comparing to a miced, recorded version of your real amps? Or comparing to the amp in the room?
 
Can you post an audio sample of your amp so we can hear what you're talking about, because verbal descriptions can mean different things to different people.
 
Multi-Band Compression can help? But compairing an Amp & Cab 'in the room' against a modeled Amp & (mic'd) Cab is not a fair comparison.

B.T.W. I'm assuming that you are referring to the higher single strings??
 
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Are you hooking up the AxeFX to your amps speaker cab? Or did you shoot an IR of your amps speaker & using either or for the comparison? Cause if you’ve not done that, you haven’t compared two similar things have ya?
One is being filtered thru a mic & one isn’t.
 
Moke said:
Multi-Band Compression can help? But compairing an Amp & Cab 'in the room' against a modeled Amp & (mic'd) Cab is not a fair comparison.

B.T.W. I'm assuming that you are referring to the higher single strings??
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Thanks for the tip on Multi-Band Compression. I have not tried that yet. That's the kind of tips I was hoping for. Yes I am mainly referring to the higher single strings.

I use my AxeFX live in the same way Dweezil Zappa does. With powered QSC cabinets (or JBL) at a volume comparable to what I would be using with real amps, so I can hear myself over a loud drummer.

I have an Axe FXII, Axe FXIIXL+, MFC-101, and Axe FXIII and FC-12. I obviously like Fractal Audio products. I think the Axe FXIII sounds better than it ever has currently. I really like the latest firmware and I was trying to dial in my favorite real amps more closely by directly comparing them side by side with my Axe FX.

My comparisons were with my live Axe FX w/ 2 FRFR cabs set up sitting right beside the real amp I was comparing it to with both at the same volume.
 
trancegodz said:
Thanks for the tip on Multi-Band Compression.
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This won’t do much if you don’t know how to set it.

You’d still haven’t told us what you actually want other than “thick” which we don’t know what that means to you.
 
chris said:
What does “thicker” mean to you?
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On the vintage amps it was just so much fuller, and just bigger sounding in particular on the high single strings. Almost like I had a string set starting with 8's with the Axe FX and starting with 12's on the real amps. I was kind of shocked. It had been a while since I'd used those old amps.

I was just listening to Jimi Hendrix playing Electric Ladyland from the Jimi Hendrix Experience Box set that came out some years ago. The one was an outtake where it is just him playing the electric guitar and nothing else. I could hear that fullness in the clean guitar sound that I am hearing with my amps and I am still trying to figure out how to dial in on the Axe FXIII.
 
I posted a similar thread about this with distorted sounds a while back. And for me, the solution tends to be sticking a boost type Drive block before the amp.

I think using the boost as a pre-EQ that cuts some of the high end helps.

Also, I often turn the Bright Switch off, or if that alters the drive characteristics too much I will lower the Bright Cap value.

Also, don't miss the point of what people are referencing with how you're comparing things. Listening to your Axe Fx thru FRFR side by side with an amp and cab will be different because the FRFR includes the the close mic'd speaker cabinet.
 
You could even try something unconventional like attaching the 'Pitch' Controller to the 'Bass' parameter in the Amp block to increase the value as you play higher notes.

Could get 'glitchy' on chords though?
 
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I play pretty hard like SRV. I noticed that with the Axe Fx that when I play softly the note sounds a little thicker than if I hit the string hard. Striking the string harder it gets a little louder, distorts a bit more, but also gets thinner and more trebly sounding. Playing through my amps when I hit the strings harder the note gets louder and the amp will distort a little more, but it doesn't get thinner. I believe there is an advanced parameter that controls what happens when you pick harder, but I don't know what that is. I'd like to try experimenting with that if I could find it.
 
Here is a simple example of how you could use the 'Multi-Comp' block to "thicken" the higher, single notes.

Took a Factory 'AX8' preset, converted and tweaked it for this example... Two clean scenes with the 'Multi-Comp' block on and a dirtier scene with it off.

Try toggling the 'Multi-Comp' block on and off to hear the difference. It shouldn't be too much different on chords and lower notes, But adds some low-end on the single notes somewhere around the 'G' string and higher?
 

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trancegodz said:
I play pretty hard like SRV. I noticed that with the Axe Fx that when I play softly the note sounds a little thicker than if I hit the string hard. Striking the string harder it gets a little louder, distorts a bit more, but also gets thinner and more trebly sounding. Playing through my amps when I hit the strings harder the note gets louder and the amp will distort a little more, but it doesn't get thinner. I believe there is an advanced parameter that controls what happens when you pick harder, but I don't know what that is. I'd like to try experimenting with that if I could find it.
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Check out the 'Dynamic Depth' parameter in the 'Dynamics' tab of the Amp block.
 
unix-guy said:
I posted a similar thread about this with distorted sounds a while back. And for me, the solution tends to be sticking a boost type Drive block before the amp.

I think using the boost as a pre-EQ that cuts some of the high end helps.

Also, I often turn the Bright Switch off, or if that alters the drive characteristics too much I will lower the Bright Cap value.
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Thanks. I often add a Drive block before the amp for distorted sounds, and yes this does help for distorted sounds. I often turn the Bright switch off also.
I haven't experimented with the Bright Cap yet. I'll give that a try. Good tips.
 
Well seeing as how your ear isn’t where the mic would be on your amp as it is for the IR’s your listening to vs the amp in the room sound & you’re also dealing with speakers that are able to reproduce the full frequency spectrum accurately, I’m thinking perhaps a lot of the issue you might be hearing is not setting your Hi-Cut where you want to be hearing it. You may be able to solve this by simply lowering your Hi-cut. You can bring it down lower than you think, and the thing is, once you start bringing it down you can actually start to crank up the Treble & presence on the Amp a bit more without it getting ice-picky. So that right there could thicken things up for ya. And if ya listen to the low end, but then add in presence, that’ll often help add definition to your lows. I know that’s not what you were specifically asking about, but it’s just to demonstrate how these things are all connected. Another thing, a lot of these amps, (Master Vol amps) the more you start cranking up the MV the more mids ya start getting. So you gotta be aware of how your MV effects the overall tone & tonestack. Plus when you’re in the sweet spot of the amp & ya have your hi-Cut set properly and you can crank that treble knob just a tad bit more you’ll get that little bit of extra compression you might be looking for. If that’s indeed the “thickness” you are referring to.
 
trancegodz said:
Thanks. I often add a Drive block before the amp for distorted sounds, and yes this does help for distorted sounds. I often turn the Bright switch off also.
I haven't experimented with the Bright Cap yet. I'll give that a try. Good tips.
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Yeah, do the same for your edge of breakup. Dial in the amp so it's a bit dull and not as driven as you actually want it, then stick a Micro Amp, RCB, SDD, etc in front. Use the Tone and High / Low Cut to shape the tone.
 
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