How do you adjust your presets for headphones use?

Tiky

Tiky

Member
From my Axe-Fx with headphones experience I have some findings:
1. If I make a new preset from scratch using headphones only, the result is great on them and OK on my FRFR speakers (bit muddy and boomy comparing to headphones).
2. If I do the same thing in reverse (dialing the tone using FRFR first), the tone is great on FRFR (the best tone out of Axe) and not so OK on headphones.
3. If I record something to Logic Pro using headphones and using FRFR with the same settings, result will be different. So yes, guitar do hear itself and behave differently (to my ear using FRFR loud enough is the better option).
4. All headphones despite of their price behave more or less the same: lack of lows and a resonance peak in highs producing that harsh sound. Comparing frequency response graph of headphones and FRFRs you'll notice that big speakers have a far more linear characteristic. As I understand it's physics: drivers are not big enough to make "big" sound with lots of lows (there is no resonance chamber comparing to FRFSs); again speakers are small and the "harsh" is coming from that, just compare in mind 1x8, 1x10, 1x12 guitar speakers (the same analogy).
5. Connecting headphones to Headphones output of Axe-Fx is the best choice. All the external processing not only adds latency, but emphasise the headphones "problems".

Currently I'm using AKG K702 and I've burned it with pink noise (no difference to me), and as for FRFRs it's KRK Rokit 5 G3 (just don't have enough space for bigger brothers). I've tried Audio-Technica ATH-W1000X, Roland RH-300, Sennheiser HD598 and HD650, some Sony pair. The main problem is the same, but as the resonance width and magnitude is different from pair to pair, some of them (AKG K702 are the best) sound better or in other words bit more musical comparing to others.

My question is: what is your approach on using headphones with Axe-Fx?
Best solution for me is using X-Y switching for Cab block. Thanks to CK and OH we have a wide variety of IRs of the same cab and I just find the best sounding one for the current audio source.
 
Your problem probably lies more with your choice of monitors. I had a set of krk's when I bought my first axe fx II,which was running fw10 at the time. They lasted a day before they went back to the store and I decided to just spend the money on Adam a7x and it was a night and day difference. I mainly play through cans and make my patches on cans and they translate very well to monitors. I haven't tried my patches at a screaming stage volume yet though. And I do have a set of AKG K812's on the way which is a huge step up from what I'm using for headphones at the moment.
 
Hmm...thanks, I've never thought in that direction actually. Definitely I'll try other monitors as well.
 
Ideally you want equipment that has similar EQ curves. You can get headphone graphs at the headroom.org and visually compare them to the spec sheets of monitors. Or just get the Barefoot MM27s and Audeze LCD-3s and be done with it.
 
I build presets using Aurisonics AS-2 in-ears. Things sound a bit crisper through my Dynaudio BM-5a's since the high's are extended, but both devices are relatively flat so my tones translate reasonably well overall. I have a GEQ at the end of each patch to tame the highs and lows for our FOH when I play live. I need this since my patches are created at lower SPL's then what the FOH pushes out live. The GEQ compensates for the Fletcher Munson effect, and I can turn it on/off in all patches with a single toggle on the AxeFX II front panel.

Terry.
 
Just like yek, I don't make any changes. The ones I build for FOH always translate fine for every other applications too
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Also, just like Tone Seeker, I use Aurisonic AS-2 in-ears. These are low-end heavy for me - on everything, not just my guitar - so I have a PEQ set for my monitor mix that cuts quite deeply around 125 and has a high-end lift for sparkle. Beautiful
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I wonder if it has anything to do with what style of music one plays? I cant believe that you don't have to adjust anything when switching to headphones. I play pretty heavy drop tuning though Mesa 50/50 power amp and 2 Mesa 4-12 cabs. My live sounds so great and takes me 5 minutes to dial in most amps and sounds great. but when i bring my Axe home and play it though headphones, it sounds terrible. I still havent found out how to get a good sound. I really don't want to have to spend even more money on monitors just to sound good in my apartment. Maybe one day i'll figure it out.
 
socalguitar said:
I wonder if it has anything to do with what style of music one plays? I cant believe that you don't have to adjust anything when switching to headphones. I play pretty heavy drop tuning though Mesa 50/50 power amp and 2 Mesa 4-12 cabs. My live sounds so great and takes me 5 minutes to dial in most amps and sounds great. but when i bring my Axe home and play it though headphones, it sounds terrible. I still havent found out how to get a good sound. I really don't want to have to spend even more money on monitors just to sound good in my apartment. Maybe one day i'll figure it out.
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Generally if a tone sounds good on one thing, then it sounds good on others. Take listening to a record track by a favorite artist. Generally it sounds pretty much the same on a quality pair of headphones, as it does through a good set of studio monitors, as it does through a FRFR system like a CLR active wedge.
 
that sounds right but there is an obvious difference in the two different methods. Do you think its just a matter of the Fletcher-Munson thing?
 
luke said:
Ideally you want equipment that has similar EQ curves. You can get headphone graphs at the headroom.org and visually compare them to the spec sheets of monitors. Or just get the Barefoot MM27s and Audeze LCD-3s and be done with it.
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that's Headphones: Full-Size, In-Ear, Wireless, Noise Cancelling, Bluetooth - but yeah it says "HEADROOM" on it so no wonder you got it wrong. anyways, it's quite interesting to compare the akg k240 mk II (which I have) to the Audeze LCD-3 and the beyerdynamic DT880. Is the Audeze LCD-3 really "flat" or flat ? I don't think it looks that flat :p and the beyerdynamic DT880 looks kind of in the ballpark if price is an issue. well I guess my akg 240 mkII is not quite in the ballpark but I'm used to them and I love them :p I think they sound good!
 
Playing thru a tube power amp and cab then trying the same preset on headphones? Are you turning on poweramp modelling and cab? Or just listening to the preamp sound?
 
I use same presets everywhere, only difference is that I add room and reverb to make it less dry and direct. Sennheiser HD600, Genelec 8040, and Atomic CLR.
 
when building tones in the axe for FOH I always make sure there is no eq adjustment in the signal after the axe.(with sound person well you just have to ask and hope for the best) but if that sound is good with no adjustment head phones should sound fine, if not maybe headphones are an issue. I can live with a little difference in the head phone sound though because I hardy ever use them!
 
Reading all the comments and doing some research didn't change my opinion: headphones and FRFRs are different in terms of frequency response and those preset will sound different. Also it depends on style of music your're playing: high gain stuff has a lot of compression all around the spectrum and all the nuances of your audio source will come out instantly.

There is simple comparison between my AKGs and headphones you guys mentioned:
Link to the file
Sorry, couldn't load it right here.
I'm not saying which is better, but to my eye there are all far from being linear. But sure LCD-3 has far better low end response. As I sad before there is lack of lows and some high freqs resonance "disturbances".

There is graph for the most popular FRFRs on the market Yamaha HS8:
373345d1385531877-recommendation-what-buy-yamaha-hs80ms-new-hs8-monitor-hs8_freq.jpg
As you see the response is far more linear comparing to headphones and it will be right for most monitors on the market. Reason for that is in using several speakers in one enclosure. My KRKs have two: for high freqs and for mids and lows. Each of these have linear response in their freq range and build-in active power amp has crossover which choses the ranges for each driver. That is why the overall characteristics is linear. If you compare response graph for the same FRFR model but with different speaker sizes, the graph will be the same, there will be difference in cross-frequency distortion.

As Tone Seeker suggested, I started using GEQ in the end of the chain trying to linearize my headphones (adding lows and cutting high freqs bumps). It works, but takes extra time.
 
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It's a lot cheaper to buy good headphones vs speakers. Also, room modes will not destroy theie response. Bass frequencies are notoriously difficult if not impossible to get right in small room. Always get highest quality monitors you can, don't buy junk.

...that's about it really.
 
luke said:
Ideally you want equipment that has similar EQ curves. You can get headphone graphs at the headroom.org and visually compare them to the spec sheets of monitors. Or just get the Barefoot MM27s and Audeze LCD-3s and be done with it.
Click to expand...

Hey luke, are you running the LCD's from the Axe headphone out?

I recently got an LCD3 (with fazor) for music listening. Haven't tried them on the Axe yet, but I could imagine them to be a bit on the warm side of neutral (no CLRs or studio monitors here yet so cannot compare).

Also, don't you have any issues with the fit being a bit too loose for playing guitar?

I got the DT880s for monitoring with the Axe originally. The difference with the LCD3 is night and day (as is the price ;), ...and the weight ).
 
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