How did you create your "core" tones? How much time you have to invest??

Morphosis

Official G66 Support
Maybe i am currently in my - we call it in german "Zweiter Frühling" - "second spring time" with the Axe. Maybe it`s just honey moon phase with some of my new IRs, anyhow ... maybe we can get a great discussion, which approaches there are to get to "core tone". With core tone i mean the basic "raw sound": Amp+Cab. But also ones, they`ll also work under "outreach circumstances", means: Should also fit in the mix, cut through in rehearsals, live on stage, etc...`cause: Years ago, when starting with the Axe Standard, this was my most issue: great sound at home, but big issues with presets i`ve done at home, when playing these in band context.


So, how are your approaches? I will start with mine:

  • Rule 1. Keep it simple! IMO, the Axe is just sooo goood these days, i don`t have to touch any advanced parameters, nothing, the actual amp would also provide.
  • Rule 2. I never ever start with tweaked amps, i always start from "scratch", with default settings. Tweaked amps means: They are tweaked to a certain signal path, maybe to a certain IR, to complement the frequency response of the whole path.
  • Rule 3. I don`t tweak the amp blocks EQ or additional EQs to a certain, pre- defined speaker sim (IR). I do it the opposite: First, i find a speaker sim (IR) which brings me to the subjective ballpark with the wanted amp, i am looking for. After that, i do minor amp tweaks secondly and for last, as finetuning.

So, in general: I don`t use the "rough" and wide banded EQ of the amp sim, to complement a given IR - instead i match with an IR, which complement the sound well and use amp eq just for what it is: to finetune the sound to the used guitar frequency spectrum.

Parameters exclusiveley maximal used:
- Input Drive in correspondence of the Master
- Bass (mostly to adjust the input drive setting on Non-Master amps, if power amp is driven hard and gets squishy
- Mid / High to liking (if needed)
- Presence and Bright switch (to liking / if needed - sometimes bright is to much for a Start type, but needed for a Les Paul...)

So, in my opinion, at least for me, it is soooooo simple and super fast to get great tones - like with the actual amp - out of the Axe-Fx in no more time, i would need on the real counterpart. Beautiful :)

  • Rule 4. I do NOT or TRY to improve tone all the time. If it sounds to satisfaction, i don`t try to improve. Or i would get lost in the parameters rabbit hole... If it sounds good, it sounds good. Done.
  • Rule 5. If doing it from scratch you always know, how, why and for what tweaks are made in the signal chain. I like to know, what`s going on in my signal chain... and why ...

So, with this approach i get decent, playable tone in under 50 seconds from scratch, and - as demonstarted in these videos with exactly ZERO tweaks on the amp & cab block ... love my Axe-Fx these days! :) :





 
I have NOT read your entire post - I don't have the time. But if you need to write more than 2 sentences about a core amp + cab tone, you're probably overthinking it, IMHO.

Here's what works for me: Dial up a tone that sounds good (2 minutes max), and don't worry about whether there might be a better tone lurking somewhere in advanced settings. Listen to it at rehearsals and gigs, fine-tune afterwards if necessary.
 
IHere's what works for me: Dial up a tone that sounds good (2 minutes max), and don't worry about whether there might be a better tone lurking somewhere in advanced settings. Listen to it at rehearsals and gigs, fine-tune afterwards if necessary.

lol ... :D:D:D ... my post as two-line summary ... ;) Great ...
 
The Axe has gotten so ridicously good that what I do most of the times is:

-Pick an amp which is in the ballpark of the gain structure I need
-Find a suitable IR and tweak cab block filters
-Change amp sim to find the right response/tone
-Profit


We have so much options that I usually just change amp instead of touching the basic eq.
I might do the latter during rehearsal to complement my bandmates' tone better but that's it.


And I do this because I tend to lose perpective VERY quickly if I dig into tone shaping too much.
Ears get fatigued/accustomed and I generallty tend to come up with a worse tone.
 
Nice to see the simple approach has become so prevalent :) really disproves the 'need to tweak forever to get a good tone' naysaying.

Absolutely in the same boat here, as simple as humanly possible. The grand majority of my presets these days I'm just finding an IR and amp combo I like and tweaking gain to taste. I've stopped using Drive pedals in favor of just finding amps with the kind of gain/EQ structure I want to begin with, even for lead tones (<3 FAS Lead 1).

I rarely even find reason to tweak amp EQ or presence/depth anymore, my main focus is finding an amp/IR combo that sounds and feels good straight out of the gate.
 
I'm the exact opposite, I'll tweak & go under the hood, leave no stone unturned, but at this point I pretty much know exactly what advanced parameters to tweak to get what I'm looking for.
This is obviously done after selecting the amp & carefully selecting the IR & setting the high & low passes which is 95% of the equation.
I'm still a firm believer that you can easily coax quite a bit of magic out of some of the deeper parameters as far as touch sensitivity/dynamics.
I've also found a lot of functionality in setting just a plain old filter block in front of the amp to drive it vs a drive pedalor with a drive pedal as well.
 
I can't get the videos to play, but from the title of the first one, I'd say you're cheating. :) Great tones from a Deluxe Tweed in under a minute? That model is awesome without touching anything!
 
I can't get the videos to play, but from the title of the first one, I'd say you're cheating. :) Great tones from a Deluxe Tweed in under a minute? That model is awesome without touching anything!
lol ... caught! :D videos play fine here ...
 
I use the Friedman BE model at default settings for my dirty tones, except for Input Drive, Negative Feedback (per Cliff's advice), and a little bump of the mids.
 
When I first got the Axe I started with listening to all of the presets. I am a minimalist so I just want a good clean sound, crunchy chord sound, hard rock chord sound, and good lead tone. At this point, I am not using any factory presets. Rather, I am using amps that I am familiar with, having owned many of them in the past. For my clean tones, I use the Vox AC30TB, or the Lonestar (my favorite). For crunchy I use the Plexi50w, for big rock I use the Plexi 100w, for leads, I use a combo rig with the Marshall Silver and the Two Stone, blended. For me, a rig that responds to the tone and volume knobs on my guitars is a must have. I tweak my tone and volume knobs all the time to work the song.

When building the rigs, I started with the amps dialed in as I would dial in my real amps. I have owned all of the ones I use, except for the Marshall Silver. After some experimentation with the cabs, I settled in on what sounded good to me. Added some effects, as I would if I was using a pedalboard, and boom, there it is. After some experimentation, I also use the Carr (never owned one) and the Tucana (never owned one of those either). I have also discovered the Brit Pre Lead preset in the latest firmware that is smokin'. I'll likely add that to my go-to rigs. When playing live which I do a lot) I do not obsess over my rigs. I use a preset that works for the song, and concentrate mostly on playing with the other musicians. Playing with other musicians is WAY more satisfying than rig obsession, but that's just me. I now use the AX8 for live performance, so the lead preset with the dual amps is not available, so I use the Tucana. If I were to pick the most versatile amp in the box, my vote would go for the Plexi 100. Cleans up really well, has a sweet tone, responds to subtle changes in guitar tone or volume, and just has that Marshall roar when throttled.
 
I've taken to using the 1987x most things these days, if not I have a couple of mainstays I'll cycle through (my main clean is the lone star btw) so I'll pull that up and then it's IR time. If I want top end, I'll cycle through my fav greenbacks; balance? The zilla creambacks, maybe mixed with a v30 or something else if I want more response. I've also taken a liking to cronos' retro 30 IR. But that's pretty much the stable I'll draw from and from there it's too easy to finish up. Compression maybe, fet boost of I want some extra push, shimmer drive for saturation, my typical fuzz selection, etc. Oh and I like to bump motor drive and grind up.
 
For myself, I always like the sound to be "bouncier" and "beefier" at the same time. So I usually goose up the Supply Sag, add a touch of pre-amp dynamics, and then add some output compression.

I also find that some amps are a bit too gritty, so I'll dial down the Pi Bias, reduce the input gain and add in some speaker drive. I'll also play with the harmonics some times to see if that helps smooth out the tone.

My changes on all of these things are small, so the original character of the amp is pretty much preserved.

One of my biggest worries is that tweaking under the hood tends to push all of the models into some degree of sameness. So maybe a AC30 based amp should sound gritty and spit some when pushed hard, so maybe I should just leave it like that? I try to keep those tweaks relatively small for that reason.
 
The only thing I struggle with building presets is finding the right drive pedal. I used a Klone most of the time with my real amps, or a TS808 which don't exist in the Axe-Fx II so the drive is never exactly like I want it to sound.
 
I do covers so my approach is very simple

1. learn the rig the artist used - amp, cab, guitar, pickups
2. load same or similar virtual rig in Axe-Fx & start with amp/cab
3. dial that rig to sound as much the same as possible (many techniques to do this. find one that works)

Why do I do it this way
1. the tone is already legendary or at least famous, so it's a great tone I don't have to "imagine" from scratch
2. the tone I'm going after is already dialed to fit in a mix and dialed to sound good at low and high volume
3. it may not be "easy" but it's often faster than chasing a tone in my head
4. I can use that tone as a solid foundation for building my "voice" or a tone I prefer
 
My main amp for years before going Fractal was the EVH 100 watt 5153 so now I use the 5153 100 watt blue in the Fractal. My settings are basically exactly the same as on the real amp which just shows how close to the real thing it is. It took my awhile to find the right IR but once you've got it the rest is easy. But when messing with another amp type I don't delve too deep. Get the amp, find the right IR and tweak the basic amp controls to taste.
 
The only thing I struggle with building presets is finding the right drive pedal. I used a Klone most of the time with my real amps, or a TS808 which don't exist in the Axe-Fx II so the drive is never exactly like I want it to sound.
That Shimmer Drive is by far my favorite drive, Cliff hit it out of the park with that one. Have you spent any time with it?
The only other thing I'll say again is don't underestimate using a Filter or PEQ/EQ Block in place of a drive block and use the Level to drive the amp, set your high & low cuts & use the eq portions to shape your tone and/or overdrive certain frequencies. Use a PEQ and you can really get pretty surgical if you want.
 
When I first got the Axe I started with listening to all of the presets. I am a minimalist so I just want a good clean sound, crunchy chord sound, hard rock chord sound, and good lead tone. At this point, I am not using any factory presets. ...

Same here. When I first started with the AxeFx I made a couple of different presets with different amps and cabs but I quickly changed to another approach. I'm using one amp + cab now. Long time a single IR but in the last months I changed to 1 cab with 2 IRs and different mics. I tweak the amp to a good combination of Master and Drive and then attach a modifier to the Input Trim so that I can have different "channels" of one amp. This way the structure of the amp or the core sound is balanced to my ears but with different gain settings/"channels". For me the Plexi amps work great for that. I use BMT, Presence, a bit of Speaker Drive and Motor Drive and that's it.
 
I'm a bad example, but I guess I should chime in for the sake of variety: I make a new preset every time I play.

Even at band practices.

If I need to have a preset made gun-to-my-head-quick, then it's just any Fender for clean, any Marshall for dirty, and 5150 for metal/lead.

If I have more time, then yes I'll start fiddling around with IR's to get into the ballpark of what I'm looking for, and then I'll fine-tune.

If I have all the time in the world (fiddling around at home on the weekend, for example, or recording), then I'll start getting into the nitty gritty stuff like adding compression, multiband compression, passive EQ, parametric EQ for problem areas, swapping tube types, etc.
 
That Shimmer Drive is by far my favorite drive, Cliff hit it out of the park with that one. Have you spent any time with it?
The only other thing I'll say again is don't underestimate using a Filter or PEQ/EQ Block in place of a drive block and use the Level to drive the amp, set your high & low cuts & use the eq portions to shape your tone and/or overdrive certain frequencies. Use a PEQ and you can really get pretty surgical if you want.
The shimmer is now my default drive too. Just fantastic and versatile.
 
When I first received my Axe-FX, about 3 or 4 years ago, I did a lot of deep amp tweaking.

On Q8.02, not so much. Now, I don't know if this a result of the many generations of newer firmware I've installed over the years, or a sort of wisdom that I've gained using the Axe-FX for so long, or a combination of both, but the fact is that I tweak a lot less now.

Now, I do, in fact, still tweak a bit, but that's the nature of being in an experimental band. I have my basic "go to" amp tones, but I really only use them as "close enough for now" starting points.
 
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