How close to amp in room?

jamn4jc

jamn4jc

Experienced
I understand FRFR, but am not ready for it, yet. I understand that a mic'd cab sounds different than an amp in a room. Etc...

How close should I be to getting the "amp in a room" feel and sound with the following setup?

- Using the Axe-FX II with FW18 Beta loaded
- amp modeling ON
- cabinet simulation BYPASSED/OFF (global); no cab block in presets
- connected to a Matrix GT800FX power amp
- in to a Matrix NL12 cabinet
- Axe FX I/O input levels set properly (i.e. highest signal with no clipping); output levels are not clipping

Should it be dead on, 99.9%, 98%, 95%... you get the idea. If there is any difference, why is that?
 
Understood. If a listener is in the *same* room with the setup described above and with the amp being modeled (e.g. a Vox AC-15), both rigs, the Axe and Vox could/should sound about the same?
 
Different cabs will sound different, so a closed back 1x12 using a Princeton amp model isn't going to sound exactly the same as a real Princeton in the room, since its a still a different size/type of speakers, but its going to be pretty darn close.

Its basically going to sound like a 1x12 cab (with whatever amp model you use) in the room, because its just that. So 100% in that regard, but unless your using the same cab/speaker as the real world amp your basing your reference off its not going to be "exact".

The amp modeling aspect is 99.9% there is a lot of cases. I've run the Axe model into a cab, and then a real head into the same cab and darn if I couldn't tell them apart in terms of sound and feel in a blind test
 
jamn4jc said:
Understood. If a listener is in the *same* room with the setup described above and with the amp being modeled (e.g. a Vox AC-15), both rigs, the Axe and Vox should sound about the same?
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About the same, yes, but if the Matrix cab has a different speaker than the Vox, your still going to get that difference
 
As stated above, it will be close but not the same. If you are trying to copy the sound of an open backed cab, or a big 4x12 cabinet, it's going to sound different because it's coming out of a small 1x12 cabinet. Dispersion characteristics are different, so the room reflections ("in the room" vibe) will be different too. Each amp model is going to sound like that amp plugged into an NL-12 cab.

FRFR will let you mimic the frequency response of different cabs, but the dispersion and room sound will still depend completely on the FRFR monitor solution selected. The sound of a twin reverb model into an IR of a twin cab played through an active CLR cab may have the exact same frequency response as a real twin reverb combo, but it will not sound the same in the room because an open backed 2x12 twin reverb cabinet is going to fill the room quite differently than a small sealed 1x12 cabinet.
 
I always use amp in room, takes to much cable to put the amp in another room.!!! really It matters not to me if it sounds exactly like the real deal because I love how it sounds Don't care what it looks like.
 
Thanks, for the replies. The comments on the cab make total sense. That may be part of the issue. I have an Orange 2x12 at another location that I will do some testing with. I have a couple of tube heads that sound great through the NL12 cabinet, so I'm pretty confident in its abilities. I spent a couple of hours working with the rig I described and did a recording that seemed a bit lack luster. I took a break, turned off the PA SAG and used the Axe-FX for effects only in to my tube head and was really happy with the results. The downside is another piece of gear to lug around. Trying to get confidence in my ability to dial in good tones on the Axe-FX before I make the jump to FRFR.
 
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If anything, FRFR, and/or using cab IR's greatly improves one's ability to get good, and more importantly, consistent tones.

I always found my real amps were very variable in how they sounded, depending on the venue, how I mic'd them (even though I tried to get that repeatable as I could) etc. Now with the Axe, I get the same tone, each and every time, and that same tone is what people here recorded as well as via a FOH system, and also what I hear via my monitors.

My amps used to sound totally different at practice, vs how I heard them on stage, vs how they sound to the FOH or people listening to a recording. Avoided all that hassle now
 
paranoid said:
I always use amp in room, takes to much cable to put the amp in another room.!!! really It matters not to me if it sounds exactly like the real deal because I love how it sounds Don't care what it looks like.
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We really do need some other modeling parameters now that you bring this up. We need frankly something like the following:
Amp in Room setting : obvious
Amp in dining room
Amp in bathroom down the hall, but of course master bath, and guest room bath
Amp in perhaps outdoor living space? patio?
Amp in garage, or geeerage as my South African Mother in law says, but I digress....
 
You forgot someone else with your amp in the bathroom while you're waiting to go.

symphx said:
We really do need some other modeling parameters now that you bring this up. We need frankly something like the following:
Amp in Room setting : obvious
Amp in dining room
Amp in bathroom down the hall, but of course master bath, and guest room bath
Amp in perhaps outdoor living space? patio?
Amp in garage, or geeerage as my South African Mother in law says, but I digress....
Click to expand...
 
the amp in the room comparison in my opinion isn't even a concern anymore. I played in a band recently and the other guitarist used a 50watt 5153 and the matching 212 cab and I used a friedman BE into a carvin 1540l into a carvin 412 and they both sounded like amps in the room to me. So the last time we jammed I went frfr thru a cheap Ev ZLX 12p and added a mix of 2 cab sims and it still sounded as good or better to my ears. I didn't get a chance to try Cliffs tip of adding a .06ms delay to one of the cabs to ad a little space to the mix but my other guitarist was amazed at the tone coming from the Ev as was I.

all this was prior to firmware 18 so im sure you'll have great success.

PS the best advice I ever read on here was starting with amp and cab and get them to sound awesome first. after that the effects only add and make it even better.

good luck!
 
PS the best advice I ever read on here was starting with amp and cab and get them to sound awesome first. after that the effects only add and make it even better.

good luck![/QUOTE]

true dat, starting with a flanger and a pitch shifter never quite gets me the tone I want at first either ;)
 
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