How can I make an amp feel saggier/bouncier when going into Powerstage 200?

Orvillain

Orvillain

Power User
How can I make an amp feel saggier/bouncier when going into Powerstage 200? I wanna try and do something in the advanced tweaks or maybe even speaker settings, to counteract the stiffness and lack of low-end thump and gut-punch from the Powerstage.

Fools errand? Just get a valve poweramp???
 
AndyTNBD said:
How can I make an amp feel saggier/bouncier when going into Powerstage 200? I wanna try and do something in the advanced tweaks or maybe even speaker settings, to counteract the stiffness and lack of low-end thump and gut-punch from the Powerstage.

Fools errand? Just get a valve poweramp???
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You don’t say how loud you are running your rig, but having it loud enough to affect the guitar helps.

I use one or two EV cabs with my Fractals, and run the rig loud enough for the strings to start ringing, just below the point of feedback. When the guitar is reacting to the sound coming from the speaker, and returns it back, is when the guitar and rig comes alive.

It’s not a tweak per se, it’s simply physics in action, and there are some adjustments you can make to approach the situation including sag and speaker compression, but really it’s just volume that matters the most when I’m playing so I leave my settings close to the defaults and enjoy the results. It’s not crazy volume either, it’s just enough for that particular guitar and amp/modeler/speaker to have a conversation.

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/the-modelers-dont-clean-up-with-the-volume-knob-myth.154557/ talks about that feedback cycle.

PS - This is where IEMs and headphones have a hard time, because they break the acoustic feedback loop. Without that air movement we have to rely on the tweaks, and they can only go so far. Even a small vocal monitor pointed at the guitar and turned up can help make up the difference.

PPS - The volume/distance ratio is important. Low volume and being close to the speaker vs. high volume and standing farther away works the same with any particular guitar. Some guitars work better than others that way; One of my Strats has a roasted maple neck and it’s amazing how it works with the amp, never going into unwanted feedback, just reacting to the sound.
 
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Greg Ferguson said:
You don’t say how loud you are running your rig, but having it loud enough to affect the guitar helps.

I use one or two EV cabs with my Fractals, and run the rig loud enough for the strings to start ringing, just below the point of feedback. When the guitar is reacting to the sound coming from the speaker, and returns it back, is when the guitar and rig comes alive.

It’s not a tweak per se, it’s simply physics in action, and there are some adjustments you can make to approach the situation including sag and speaker compression, but really it’s just volume that matters the most when I’m playing so I leave my settings close to the defaults and enjoy the results. It’s not crazy volume either, it’s just enough for that particular guitar and amp/modeler/speaker to have a conversation.

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/the-modelers-dont-clean-up-with-the-volume-knob-myth.154557/ talks about it that feedback cycle.

PS - This is where IEMs and headphones have a hard time, because they break the acoustic feedback loop. Without that air movement we have to rely on the tweaks, and they can only go so far. Even a small vocal monitor pointed at the guitar and turned up can help make up the difference.
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Loud as fuck.

But seriously, yeah loud. Can get feedback easily. Through a 4x12 as well. This is more or less rehearsal and gig levels.
 
Thomas Obester said:
Saggy, bouncy and chewy but tight at the same time is what I like the best.
I’m using here Powerstage with volume around 85db.
How does this sounds to you ?

edit : have you found your speaker resonance frequency ? IMO, this is key in order to get that bouncy/chewy/tube feel.
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curious did you have to adjust the speaker impedance curve frequency parameters much since it's already listed in the speaker impedance curve list as 4x12 recto slant anyway
 
turn up that b+ time constant as well, around 15-22ms like the mesa branded amplifiers


B+ TIME CONSTANT​

From the Owners Manual:

"This interacts with the Supply Sag control because it makes the virtual power supply response slower or faster. When the supply is fast the amp will sag rapidly accentuating the pick attack and compressing after. Most guitar players like this, but setting it too fast will cause excessive AC ripple and ghost notes. For convenience the virtual power supply voltage (B+) is shown as a meter on this page when the Supply Sag control is selected. (The meter shows dB, relative to the idle voltage.)"
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in case you run into ghost notes ...
FractalAudio said:
Ghost notes are intermodulation distortion between the power supply ripple and the audio.

There are several ways to reduce it:
1. Change the supply to DC. This will completely eliminate it as there will be no supply ripple.
2. Reduce the supply sag. This will reduce the amount of ripple but also reduce the power amp compression due to supply sag.
3. Increase the B+ time constant. This will also reduce the amount of ripple but slow the response of the supply.
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ApocalypticKatana said:
curious did you have to adjust the speaker impedance curve frequency parameters much since it's already listed in the speaker impedance curve list as 4x12 recto slant anyway
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actually, it is the “recto small” IC that fits my real recto traditional cab just perfectly. low end resonance of that IC is set at 120hz and it’s dead on to my cab. With this IC it behaves exactly like when using my real mesa cab with tube amps. I’m so happy how nice it works without tweaking anything :).
Because of that,I set recto small IC as global, so when I change the amp model, it always behaves as one expects when swapping real amps with real cab.
 
Thomas Obester said:
Saggy, bouncy and chewy but tight at the same time is what I like the best.
I’m using here Powerstage with volume around 85db.
How does this sounds to you ?

edit : have you found your speaker resonance frequency ? IMO, this is key in order to get that bouncy/chewy/tube feel.
Click to expand...

Hot DAYUM! I might have to swap my Matrix and check out a Powerstage :hearteyes:
 
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