How are they getting THAT sound ??

E

evh_slash

Member
Hey guys, I'm new to the forum .

I'm using my Axe mostly for FX in my Wet Dry Wet Tube amp rig these days because I find I'm never quite able to get the killer convincing amp tones out of it when going Direct using the amp and cab sims . I see so many guys on youtube recording rock tracks, covers and amazing guitar solo's with their Axe FX and I'm wondering what they're doing to get it to sound so like the real thing .

My main issue is whenever I'm using the amp & cab sims my sound is a bit Nasal and synthetic ... Like it lacks the punch and thickness especially soloing on the plain strings I can hear that digital thin sound that I can't seem to hear when listening to these guys on youtube . In a mix its not quite so bad and I guess thats the most important thing but by itself it just sounds weak .


How is everyone getting such killer authentic sounds going Direct ? It's confusing me !
I've always used the stock Cab sims, maybe this is part of the problem ... Are external Specialist IR's the missing ingredient ?
 
IRs play an important role, for sure. I like to use some third-party IRs (specifically Red Wirez and Celestion Plus Backline Heroes) and most of the times they sound better than stock cabs to my ears.
But there are pretty cool stock cabs as well, it only takes so much time to try them all.
 
The “stock” cab IR’s are all taken from third party, or “external specialist” IR producers for the most part, with the exception of some FAS IR’s, which are equally fantastic as any IR producer out there imo.
Hard to know for sure where you’re falling short with out hearing it & seeing a patch, could be something simple like setting your High Cut properly, or too much gain..
Post a clip & a patch for better results..
 
When you are using the cab sim and go direct, what is your listening system? If you go through cheap, small monitor speakers, lower grade headphones or consumer grade speakers, then that might be a reason. I remember there was one guy ever asking here on the forum something very similar, why he couldn't get rid of an annoying sound in the Axe. Turned out it was a resonance in his speakers and he had to use an EQ to cut a certain frequency drastically, and suddenly - voila, the guy was very happy, sound was fixed. When you say "nasal" sound, it could be that your speakers emphasise something between 500 Hz and 1 kHz range (guessing roughly here).
Try through a set of decent monitors, I run my Axe Fx III through Yamaha HS80M's, and the consensus here seems to be that they are, at their price point, the lower edge of what a suitable playback system for the Axe Fx III should be. Make sure you have 8'' speakers, I also have a set of Presonus Eris 3.5 with the small 3.5'' cone, and between these two pairs, the size definitely matters.
 
evh_slash said:
Hey guys, I'm new to the forum .

I'm using my Axe mostly for FX in my Wet Dry Wet Tube amp rig these days because I find I'm never quite able to get the killer convincing amp tones out of it when going Direct using the amp and cab sims . I see so many guys on youtube recording rock tracks, covers and amazing guitar solo's with their Axe FX and I'm wondering what they're doing to get it to sound so like the real thing .

My main issue is whenever I'm using the amp & cab sims my sound is a bit Nasal and synthetic ... Like it lacks the punch and thickness especially soloing on the plain strings I can hear that digital thin sound that I can't seem to hear when listening to these guys on youtube . In a mix its not quite so bad and I guess thats the most important thing but by itself it just sounds weak .


How is everyone getting such killer authentic sounds going Direct ? It's confusing me !
I've always used the stock Cab sims, maybe this is part of the problem ... Are external Specialist IR's the missing ingredient ?
Click to expand...
evh_slash said:
Hey guys, I'm new to the forum .

I'm using my Axe mostly for FX in my Wet Dry Wet Tube amp rig these days because I find I'm never quite able to get the killer convincing amp tones out of it when going Direct using the amp and cab sims . I see so many guys on youtube recording rock tracks, covers and amazing guitar solo's with their Axe FX and I'm wondering what they're doing to get it to sound so like the real thing .

My main issue is whenever I'm using the amp & cab sims my sound is a bit Nasal and synthetic ... Like it lacks the punch and thickness especially soloing on the plain strings I can hear that digital thin sound that I can't seem to hear when listening to these guys on youtube . In a mix its not quite so bad and I guess thats the most important thing but by itself it just sounds weak .


How is everyone getting such killer authentic sounds going Direct ? It's confusing me !
I've always used the stock Cab sims, maybe this is part of the problem ... Are external Specialist IR's the missing ingredient ?
Click to expand...
Sound to me like Cabinet modeling in not active in your global setting under config. Power amp and Cabinet modeling both muct be on when running direct or Using FRFR Cabs. If you are using a tube power amp, turn off Power amp modeling. If you are using vintage 30 speaker or another guitar speaker, Turn cabinet modeling off. I see this a lot on here.
 
I believe you have an Axe-Fx II. In that case 3rd-party IRs might be something to consider. This forum is for the Axe-Fx III.
 
Most of the YouTube demos are probably in a mix, post-processed and/or double tracked. Playing live with an IR, in my experience, never sounds as good as it does when you record it and listen back. I find this true on my 5” studio monitors and on my 12” xitone. If you’re bedroom jamming, play along with backing tracks and it’ll feel thicker. If you’re live then just make sure the sound is right in the audience and then get used to the way that feels/sounds on stage.

Personally I don’t have any pressing need to run frfr so I just run through a power amp and cab. I record direct into the interface and then apply cab sims through cab lab, but the sound I hear is all matrix pa into a 2x12, it is glorious.
 
Maybe it's not the amps fault, but the guitar? The Axe FX should sound like a real amp without that many tweaks, as shown in various blind tests.

Here's a thing:
When you load Ultrares IR's (They're marked italic on axe edit), use Ultrares mode on the cab block.
When you load normal res cabs, use normal res mode on cab block. Otherwise, the IRs sound weird.

Make sure you are not slaving the Axe FX world clock from a 44Khz device. That also makes axe FX sound weird.
 
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FreeMind said:
Maybe it's not the amps fault, but the guitar? The Axe FX should sound like a real amp without that many tweaks, as shown in various blind tests.

Here's a thing:
When you load Ultrares IR's (They're marked italic on axe edit), use Ultrares mode on the cab block.
When you load normal res cabs, use normal res mode on cab block. Otherwise, the IRs sound weird.

Make sure you are not slaving the Axe FX world clock from a 44Khz device. That also makes axe FX sound weird.
Click to expand...

Recorded, yes, frfr in the room vs traditional cab in the room though, not so much. Dude is used to running a W/D/W setup, so he’s probably used to a pretty massive tone. The switch from that to direct out/frfr is going to be pretty drastic.

Granted I’m getting ahead of myself too, need to know from the OP what he’s basing the comparison on. Is he recording the full tube rig and then recording the axe direct and comparing in the daw? Is he running the axe direct with ir’s Through studio monitors or a wedge or what? I’m just assuming that he’s running his tube rig through a couple 4x12’s and then running the axe through maybe a 12” frfr like an alto or a clr. “Thin” would absolutely be a defining word for that comparison.

Edit: I also always assume high gain, which is wrong on my part but I just can’t help it haha.
 
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ChainOfThought said:
Recorded, yes, frfr in the room vs traditional cab in the room though, not so much. Dude is used to running a W/D/W setup, so he’s probably used to a pretty massive tone. The switch from that to direct out/frfr is going to be pretty drastic.

Granted I’m getting ahead of myself too, need to know from the OP what he’s basing the comparison on. Is he recording the full tube rig and then recording the axe direct and comparing in the daw? Is he running the axe direct with ir’s Through studio monitors or a wedge or what? I’m just assuming that he’s running his tube rig through a couple 4x12’s and then running the axe through maybe a 12” frfr like an alto or a clr. “Thin” would absolutely be a defining word for that comparison.

Edit: I also always assume high gain, which is wrong on my part but I just can’t help it haha.
Click to expand...

Maybe he should just buy a transparent power amp to use with the axe FX and get a real cab then. Best of both worlds.
 
FreeMind said:
Maybe he should just buy a transparent power amp to use with the axe FX and get a real cab then. Best of both worlds.
Click to expand...
That’s what I do. I can always get a good tone out of my xitone, but 100% of the time when I switch back over the 2x12 setup the xitone gets relegated back to music listening and backing tracks at the rehearsal space. Granted I’m also in 10x15 space with a guy running an engl/mkIV rig into a 4x12...a 1x12 frfr setup just sounds kind of dumb next to that for death metal.

OP could also turn off power amp sims and run through the fx return of his tube amp to sort of test the waters on that. Sometimes I wish I still had a tube power amp just so I wouldn’t have to worry as much about the resonance settings and all that haha.
 
ChainOfThought said:
Recorded, yes, frfr in the room vs traditional cab in the room though, not so much. Dude is used to running a W/D/W setup, so he’s probably used to a pretty massive tone. The switch from that to direct out/frfr is going to be pretty drastic.

Granted I’m getting ahead of myself too, need to know from the OP what he’s basing the comparison on. Is he recording the full tube rig and then recording the axe direct and comparing in the daw? Is he running the axe direct with ir’s Through studio monitors or a wedge or what? I’m just assuming that he’s running his tube rig through a couple 4x12’s and then running the axe through maybe a 12” frfr like an alto or a clr. “Thin” would absolutely be a defining word for that comparison.

Edit: I also always assume high gain, which is wrong on my part but I just can’t help it haha.
Click to expand...

Hey man ! Yeah basically I guess I'm so used to the real sound in the room that I'm left feeling a little flat hearing a DI'd tone with amp and cab sim / IR . I guess when I say 'Thin' I'm referring to that slightly synthetic/digital nasal sound I ONLY notice when using the Cab sims either when recording or through my Yamaha HS7 monitors .

When I use my Axe FX ii into my tube power amp + 4x12 setup all of a sudden it sounds huge again .
So considering so many people record their guitars DI into the Axe, how are they avoiding that slightly cheap ' cab sam ' quality ??
 
FreeMind said:
Maybe he should just buy a transparent power amp to use with the axe FX and get a real cab then. Best of both worlds.
Click to expand...

I have some amazing tube power amps and amp heads and cabs etc. This is not the problem . 99% of the time I'm playing through my main amp heads and 4x12s .

My query is when I play or record with the Axe FX going direct, how do I get rid of that synthetic-y sound I seem to hear when I play through the cab sim block ? (I use the high cut filter AND adjust the de-phase and proximity setting to move the virtual Mic so to speak...)
It seems to be an inherent quality of the IR / Cab sim block I have noticed . Like a squashed compressed slightly half cocked wah kind of feel.

People seem to think fizzy as a purely 'EQ' thing ... its not necessarily thin as in Bright in terms of EQ, its that processed cab sim feel I only seem to notice in my own recordings , but not when I listen to other peoples AXE fx recordings, so I'm curious what everyone ese is doing when they record DI.
 
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ChainOfThought said:
Most of the YouTube demos are probably in a mix, post-processed and/or double tracked. Playing live with an IR, in my experience, never sounds as good as it does when you record it and listen back. I find this true on my 5” studio monitors and on my 12” xitone. If you’re bedroom jamming, play along with backing tracks and it’ll feel thicker. If you’re live then just make sure the sound is right in the audience and then get used to the way that feels/sounds on stage.

Personally I don’t have any pressing need to run frfr so I just run through a power amp and cab. I record direct into the interface and then apply cab sims through cab lab, but the sound I hear is all matrix pa into a 2x12, it is glorious.
Click to expand...

As an example, listen to this video - Unaccomanied, no drums, but sounds pretty convincing !! I can't seem to pick out those trademark 'Cab sim' frequensies / artifacts, especially on his treble strings, if that makes sense ??

 
Are you comparing the recorded axefx sound to a recording of your cab through a mic? You might just not be used to actually ‘playing a recorded tone’ if you’ve never isolated your cab in a different room and tracked while listening on headphones or monitors.

Mic up your cab and record that, then record through an IR and I would imagine you’ll find there’s not a whole lot of difference. If there is then you might just need different IR’s or some other tweaks.
 
evh_slash said:
As an example, listen to this video - Unaccomanied, no drums, but sounds pretty convincing !! I can't seem to pick out those trademark 'Cab sim' frequensies / artifacts, especially on his treble strings, if that makes sense ??

Click to expand...


Are you using hi and lo cuts in the cab block? Typical recommendations for starting points are around 80hz and 8500hz
 
ChainOfThought said:
Are you using hi and lo cuts in the cab block? Typical recommendations for starting points are around 80hz and 8500hz
Click to expand...

Yes I already have those on , around 85 Hz and 7kHz at the moment . As I said above in response to another user... its not necessarily an EQ thing, its more just that 'quality' I notice when turning the cab sim on ... Almost like a squishy compressed narrow / almost slightly Phased sound (feel??)
 
ChainOfThought said:
Are you using hi and lo cuts in the cab block? Typical recommendations for starting points are around 80hz and 8500hz
Click to expand...

Maybe I should pay 5 euro's for this guys VH patches and then check for some high quality 3rd party IR's rather than using the stock 4x12 Basketweave Greenbacks / 4x12 Cali & see if that helps ! Haha
 
I don't ever do any high-low cuts myself in the axe.
When recording, i do that in the DAW if there's a problem.
During gigs, i leave that to the Engineer.
 
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