How accurate is Fractal DRIVE modeling?

DLC86

DLC86

Fractal Fanatic
Title and subject inspired by another recent thread.

I'm currently putting together a "small" analog rig, just for the pleasure of playing it from time to time and to have something where friends occasionally coming to our rehearsal room can plug and jam along.

So I took the chance to make some analog vs digital comparisons and the amps came out as virtually indistinguishable from the real deal (no surprises here).
The drive sims, on the other hand, don't "feel" as good as the real ones to me.
Mind you, I don't have pedals that correspond exactly to the ones modeled in the axe (closer ones are pretty different revisions), so I can't really make a direct comparison, and posting samples would be pointless imho, but I can definitely hear something that's different across all of them.
The analog ones seem to be more "organic" and dynamic, even when using a lot of gain they respond well to the picking dynamics while the simulations, in that scenario, almost feel like there's a brick wall limiter engaged. Also, they seem to have smoother bottom and top end, kinda an increased bandwidth.

I think for some models this is more evident than other models (e.g. diode based models seem to behave better than others) and probably you can perceive the difference only if you, like me, use the drives to generate distortion going into a clean amp, using them as clean boosters would probably mask these nuances.

Just to be clear, I'm not typing this to bash Fractal in any way, I've been using their modelers happily for six years now and still consider their drive models the best currently on the market, I will continue to use them cuz they sound exceptionally well regardless.
The Axe FX III is and will be my main rig for a long time.
I'm just reporting my (hopefully) constructive critics and I'd like to know what you guys' opinion is on this subject.

Peace
 
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The KoT is perfect and I think that's a relatively difficult one to get right. Compared to other pedals that I've owned, they all sound and feel the same to me with the latest firmware. The compression feels the same as the pedals. The earlier firmware was not accurate to my ears and was more compressed.
 
thud_peterson said:
The KoT is perfect and I think that's a relatively difficult one to get right. Compared to other pedals that I've owned, they all sound and feel the same to me with the latest firmware. The compression feels the same as the pedals. The earlier firmware was not accurate to my ears and was more compressed.
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Yep, I think tubescreamer derivatives are the ones that feel better in the axe.
 
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DLC86 said:
I think for some models this is more evident than other models (e.g. diode based models seem to behave better than others) and probably you can perceive the difference only if you, like me, use the drives to generate distortion going into a clean amp, using them as clean boosters would probably mask these nuances.
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The recent update with diode clippers probably helped..? What are some drives that don't feel as good to you?
 
yeky83 said:
The recent update with diode clippers probably helped..?
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For sure

yeky83 said:
What are some drives that don't feel as good to you?
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Well, the ones that are less satisfactory to play are fuzzes for sure (I have a silicon fuzz face and a skreddy lunar module), and it's not only about impedance cuz I usually run the real ones after a buffer anyway (the skreddy is buffered on its own).
I have 3 different versions of the big muff, a ram's head, a green russian and a cornish g2 (the last one doesn't really sound like a muff though) and all three have that "something more" compared to the model of the triangle we currently have, the texture of the distortion seems kinda more complex.
I guess the muff might be tricky to model without using tons of CPU though, since it has two cascaded diode clipping stages and also transistors run into clipping on most versions.

I've also got a cornish SS3 which is basically a Dist+ with a few tweaks, I can get close with that model in terms of frequency response and character of the distortion but nowhere near the same feel and dynamics. Just playing some palm mutes shows the difference pretty clearly for me.
Another one I can closely match the response and clipping is the colorsound powerboost, using the fas boost, but still lacking in the dynamics and top/bottom end smoothness.

I'm currently building a clone of the bb preamp (which I also owned in the past) and with that I'll be able to make a 1:1 comparison in the next few days, but from memory the model already sounds pretty close.

PS: I've been using the Suhr Riot Ge model in place of the muff lately and I like it quite a bit, in terms of feel it gets closer than the Pi fuzz model, but the texture is a bit different.
 
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Are you putting the real pedals in an Axe Fx loop or in front?

Would be interesting to see if you noticed a different between those two setups.
 
unix-guy said:
Are you putting the real pedals in an Axe Fx loop or in front?

Would be interesting to see if you noticed a different between those two setups.
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In front mainly, I'll repeat the test putting them in the loop to see if axe input stage makes a difference 👍🏼
 
unix-guy said:
Are you putting the real pedals in an Axe Fx loop or in front?

Would be interesting to see if you noticed a different between those two setups.
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I should add that I made the comparison twice by running them both into amp models and a real amp (hiwatt little d) with the same results. And as I said previously, I always run a buffer in front of the pedals, so the guitar always "saw" the same input stage regardless of what I was using.
Input impedance on the axe was set to 1M.
 
I would guess accurate enough that you would need the correct equipment and knowledge to try and quantify any meaningful difference. Sound and feel for all real world purposes? Am sure is spot on.
 
YMMV. The TS9, DX and + models are uncannily like the actual ones I have (I A/B them when I first got my Axe FX3): they distort the same way, drive the front end of an amp model the same way they drive an amp, depending how you've got them gain staged, just like the hardware. (And other drive models perform like I'd expect, although I can't now compare them side by side). Most pedals I used to have were easy to let go of because I could accomplish the musical purpose with the Drive models; better sometimes than the hardware versions. There's hundreds of versions of thousands of pedals, guitars and amps, few are exactly alike: at least with the AxeFX, there's a vast array of very useful customization and adjustment. I get better results from custom models of germanium fuzzes and drives than any of the hardware incarnations I bought and sold over the years. But, for those who aren't able to dial in a suitable model: Keep those pedals and run them into the AxeFX if its just easier or more convenient.
 
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Pedals like BigMuff will never be exact given the variety of circuits they use between versions and the variance in transistors, which is often extreme even with silicon. No germanium pedal is close to another in real life either so don't be cruel. I'm not sure if people understand how hard it can be to match transistors.
I will say the Ge Riot is pretty on the ball though...
Opamp pedals with clipping diodes like Rats and Tubescreamer are pretty close. I have a The Rat 90s reissue (the infamous Woodcutter) Motorola LM308 with 29 year old electrolytics and surely drifted components that sounds awesome overdriving real amp inputs. The model is still in the ballpark into a plexi or something.
Man, I really love pedals.
 
For me, they are accurate enough that I don't long to go out an try new pedals. I've had infinite fun playing with the models as they are.
 
I had a big muff pi when I got the axe3 and even at that time still at firmware 1.5 something - I couldn't tell the difference between the real pedal and the axe version so I sold it. For the money I bought 5 set of strings and had a double espresso at a cafe at the waterfront. No regrettes... though I still wish there was a couple of fuzz drives in the axe like vemuran myriad and zvex fuzz factory...
Just for the fun of it...
 
johnnypig said:
Pedals like BigMuff will never be exact given the variety of circuits they use between versions and the variance in transistors, which is often extreme even with silicon. No germanium pedal is close to another in real life either so don't be cruel.
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Yep, but I definitely don't expect the model to be exactly the same as my pedals, and when I do comparisons I don't care if the frequency response or the harmonics aren't 100% identical, or if the knobs don't correspond 1:1. These are not the qualities I'm interested in, I'm talking more about how the pedals react to your playing, how they feel under your fingers, how they interact with the amp, the attack and decay of the note, their behaviour when they process complex signals like palm muting, double stops, pinch harmonics, etc.

Anyway, I've spent the last two hours with the SS3 and the dist+ model and by changing diodes to D9E I managed to get them really really close, this kinda confirms that models based on diode clipping are pretty much spot on to the real deal. Looking forward to try the bb preamp too
 
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I was able to clone the Boss CE-300, The Roland Jazz JC 120 Chorus and the Analogman DS1 so close that no one can tell the difference anymore.
 
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