High Gain Dizzy 10.06 sounded horrible until...

symphx

symphx

Fractal Fanatic
Well going through some of my presets made prior to 10.06 I loved me some Dizzy. Then uggggh, the dreaded muffled blanket. I have reloaded, reset, etc. It seems the presence dial has greatly changed, and turning it up seems to do the trick. I wish with new changes, a list of suggested settings would be given, so we dont have to rack our brains, changing IR's and 700 different potential settings to get our "sound" back. Even starting from scratch I likely wouldnt have gone straight to presence. any other tips out there?
 
This world of modeling is so qualitative/subjective. I think this is the 'rub' that has everyone a touch apprehensive about diving into the realm of Axe-II only; and giving up their analog kits. Fact is, I find the VH4 model in 10.06 much closer to the real thing than anything offered in the previous firmware iterations. I have a few Diezel amps and cabs; I won't be letting them go as they're seriously incredible amps that offer "magic" in the room unlike any other amp I've owned or own.

I guess it's all perception and personal preference, but A/B'ing the model with the real deal (aside from the fact the EQ isn't at all like the real thing) is way more "realerer" than before.

Just IMHO, YMMV.
 
ventura said:
This world of modeling is so qualitative/subjective. I think this is the 'rub' that has everyone a touch apprehensive about diving into the realm of Axe-II only; and giving up their analog kits. Fact is, I find the VH4 model in 10.06 much closer to the real thing than anything offered in the previous firmware iterations. I have a few Diezel amps and cabs; I won't be letting them go as they're seriously incredible amps that offer "magic" in the room unlike any other amp I've owned or own.

I guess it's all perception and personal preference, but A/B'ing the model with the real deal (aside from the fact the EQ isn't at all like the real thing) is way more "realerer" than before.

Just IMHO, YMMV.
Click to expand...

Are you sure about this. Cause Version 10 has been matched exactly with how the real amps are,so how is the EQ different.
 
I'm a big VH4 ch3 and ch4 fan...

the solution I preferred post fw10+ was to replace it with the Hertbert ch2+ and ch3 for that typical Diezel tone
 
ever since 10.06 the vh4-3 and vh4-4 are probably my favorite amps in the box.
before 10 I liked the dasmetal more than the vh4.
 
I think after the re-MIMIC, the VH4 improved for sure
but the Herbert improved in such a huge way in 10+ that for my tastes, it's surpassed the VH4 for that iconic Diezel tone..

that said, when it comes to the real amps, although I adore both the Herbert and the VH4
the real VH4 wins by a nose

there's something about the real VH4..
someone called it 'pixie dust' and I reckon that's about right
ch3 sounds like a crunchy amp, but feels like a hi-gain amp
it's nuts... and awesome...
 
clarky said:
I think after the re-MIMIC, the VH4 improved for sure
but the Herbert improved in such a huge way in 10+ that for my tastes, it's surpassed the VH4 for that iconic Diezel tone..

that said, when it comes to the real amps, although I adore both the Herbert and the VH4
the real VH4 wins by a nose

there's something about the real VH4..
someone called it 'pixie dust' and I reckon that's about right
ch3 sounds like a crunchy amp, but feels like a hi-gain amp
it's nuts... and awesome...
Click to expand...


how close would you say the herbert model has come to the real thing after 10+?
 
from memory, I'd say it's pretty spot on

note though that it's been quite some time since I've played through one
 
immortal_soloist said:
Are you sure about this. Cause Version 10 has been matched exactly with how the real amps are,so how is the EQ different.
Click to expand...

You have to own the actual amps to tell that they aren't right. The 5150 BLOCK sounds nothing like my real 5150 BLOCK in any sort of way no matter how much tweaking is involved. If you set the knobs to match up to each other there isn't a single similarity in any part of it.
 
schlagdog said:
You have to own the actual amps to tell that they aren't right. The 5150 BLOCK sounds nothing like my real 5150 BLOCK in any sort of way no matter how much tweaking is involved. If you set the knobs to match up to each other there isn't a single similarity in any part of it.
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My 5150 Block sounds exactly like the model.
 
I'd have to agree with Cliff here..
a pal of mine has a 5150 Block and he has on several occasions been stupid enough to let me ravage it..

from what I remember, I'd say the Axe has nailled this one completely..

I've not been an owner of a traditional amp for many years [I went the multi-fx / poweramp route for my tone]
but there are a couple of amps that I've managed to spend some quality time with..
VH4
Herbert
Einstein
5150 Block
JMC800
HH IC100
Laney L100R

not a big list...
but as you can imagine, the VH4, Herbert and 5150 Block really stood out..
 
Don't know what to tell you but sounds nothing like my 5150. I have the original EVH logo 5150 and there isn't a single parameter that matches up with it. If I set everything on 5 the different is night and day. Less gain, less low end, way too much mid range and less treble. I doubt my matrix gt1000 is changing my tone through my mesa 4x12 oversized cab that much.
 
Don't know what to tell you. I have the original EVH logo 5150 and everything matches near exact.
 
immortal_soloist said:
Are you sure about this. Cause Version 10 has been matched exactly with how the real amps are,so how is the EQ different.
Click to expand...
As sure as I am plugging into to the actual head at any given time of the day, yes.

clarky said:
I think after the re-MIMIC, the VH4 improved for sure
but the Herbert improved in such a huge way in 10+ that for my tastes, it's surpassed the VH4 for that iconic Diezel tone..

that said, when it comes to the real amps, although I adore both the Herbert and the VH4
the real VH4 wins by a nose

there's something about the real VH4..
someone called it 'pixie dust' and I reckon that's about right
ch3 sounds like a crunchy amp, but feels like a hi-gain amp
it's nuts... and awesome...
Click to expand...
I was the "pixie dust" guy, as I just didn't have another way of explaining what happens with that amp in "reality" of playing it. But this is not and has never been a beef with the A2 product or its related most recent firmware. In fact, the latest FW - as mentioned - is fantastic when it comes to the VH4 channels. Herbert is gold as well. Just saying... There are some amps that are a touch elusive - for reason I cannot explain.

Best,
Mo
 
I have owned 4 or 5 5150's and currently have a 5152. i think they are spot on in the axe,
I was very happy the 5152 was included in 10.
 
FractalAudio said:
Don't know what to tell you. I have the original EVH logo 5150 and everything matches near exact.
Click to expand...

Have you played them both through the same cab recently because I have spent countless hours A/Bing the two through the mesa and tweaking. The first thing I have to do is turn the DAMP completely off and start pulling out midrange and adding gain. The 5150 BLOCK is still my main amp model in the axefx but I just consider it my favorite in the axe but just a different amp in general compared to my 5150. I can throw a TM block into a direct signal and get it real close but I am a cab guy and 90% of the time use my Mesa cab.
 
symphx said:
...rack our brains, changing IR's and 700 different potential settings to get our "sound" back. Even starting from scratch I likely wouldnt have gone straight to presence. any other tips out there?
Click to expand...
You wouldn't have gone to treble and presence after losing the high end (muffled blanket)? I don't get that.

This is how I do it:
1 - figure out what changed: gain, master, lows, mids, highs
2 - go to the knob/knobs associated with the change
3 - if that doesn't recapture it, then I change the cabinet & revisit 1&2

If it's a texture, dynamics, response or frequency specific mojo, the basics will still get me at least 80% there. Then it's off to the eq, compression, damp, dynamic, definition.

If that doesn't get me to 90%, I go to input trim, transformer match and transformer drive.

With the Lemur axe-fx editor I can do the entire process in under 15 minutes. Usually in 5-10, even with a tricky re-dial.

That means I've hit the treble or presence in seconds and everything else in a few minutes. Then I navigate very quickly between it all to get the tone where I want. This is possible with the Lemur axe-fx editor (see my sig). It makes short work of redialing after big firmware updates. Touchscreen is the way to go. I'm not affiliated with Scrutinizer, I just enjoy working with his editing template.
 
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schlagdog said:
Have you played them both through the same cab recently because I have spent countless hours A/Bing the two through the mesa and tweaking. The first thing I have to do is turn the DAMP completely off and start pulling out midrange and adding gain. The 5150 BLOCK is still my main amp model in the axefx but I just consider it my favorite in the axe but just a different amp in general compared to my 5150. I can throw a TM block into a direct signal and get it real close but I am a cab guy and 90% of the time use my Mesa cab.
Click to expand...

Have you tried plugging your Axe-Fx into the effects return of your 5150, then turning the Axe's Sag control to 0 to disable the poweramp? In other words, use your 5150 as a poweramp only, and the Axe as a preamp section only.

A good way to figure out exactly where discrepancies are is to narrow down as many variables as possible. This might help that.


Also, I wonder how much variance there is between 1 5150 and the next. If you took two 5150s off the line at Peavey and A/B'd them, how different would they sound with the same settings?
 
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