Here is an odd situation..

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PlaysARobin

Inspired
Could't figure out where to get the best feedback would be regarding which subforum to put this in. Tossed it here for now and if someone deems necessary, it can certainly be moved.

Some minor back story for context, then the question.
I've been a 99% church band guitarist for my entire guitar playing life.. From the age of 15 to my now, about to be 31 year old self, its just been the only avenue I've had, which is fine. I worked at the church I attended/played/directed the band from 16 until this year. The associate Pastors had an opportunity to take over a church about an hour away, well established but in a state of disarray. I've been real close to them and we (wife, kids and I) decided to follow them and help out. Whatever we could do, we knew we wanted to help out in whatever way possible.

I'm asked to join their band after being there about a month. They do the typical Hillsongs, Jesus Culture, modern stuff. All abilities aside, I like the direction they're working in. The leader is my age and wants everything guitar driven, which is fine by me as I came from a place where the keys were the foundation. Different strokes, and all. I set up the Axe II rig (MFC, Axe, my Anderson guitar) at the first rehearsal and just played softly while getting to know where I could fit sonically. Their 'band director' plays lead mainly and the leader played rhythm electric. It was clunky at first, but I kept it simple. The leader plays a /13 into a 1x12 dual mic'd cab with a simple, but nice pedalboard (voyager, green meanie, time factor, boss reverb, tu2) with the amp set clean. The band leader/lead guitarist plays an AC30 with a similar board. Neither are my cup of tea from a tonal stance, but it works. I've been using the Wrecker sim (lots of volume knob) with minimal delay and some reverb just to keep it from being overly dry with the in ears. Alternately I've got a Vibrolux patch and a JTM45 patch that I would use from time to time just to see which would work better. What I've found is that their guitars are delayed so heavily that it would all just sort of mud up.

Here is the predicament. The main music leader, for the past 4 services has asked me to play through his set up and he'll pay acoustic. I asked if there was any specific reason, but that I was ok with giving it a shot. He and I talked for a little while about his opinion that every guitar must have its sonic space, or things become 'abrasive' in the mix and it will turn off the elderly crowd. I agreed because at the core of his point, he's absolutely right. I offered to work out an AC30 or Matchless style patch to see if that would work better into what he was after, but he just said don't worry about it because his stuff is ready to go and I can just show up and play. Since everything is still in that transition point, and I'd rather give the benefit of the doubt up front and go from there, I've played the /13 setup. Really not digging it. Its a cool amp and the pedal board isn't bad, but it simply doesn't respond to the way I play, my volume knob and honestly, overall the tone itself isn't overly pleasing. Very dominant upper mids that cut. Reminds me a bit of the DrZ Maz18 I played. Just couldn't get along with it. I've played his rig for about 3 weeks now and I'm just not digging it.

We discuss options briefly and he says he'd rather I play a mic'd amp than go direct since he's "never had good results direct". I'm not out to change the world, but man.. I really don't want to go down that road again. I've been playing Hillsongs, Lincoln Brewster, JC, and modern/traditional worship stuff for 15 years. I've never had any issues with fitting into a mix and jiving with different groups of people over the years. Just not sure how to go about this, if the 'black box' going direct will never sound good to him.

Any recommendations? I'm not an AC30/wall of delay and verb fan, so it may be a futile effort, but I'd be willing to throw a straight up knock off patch together and try it. I'd just like something that feels and responds well. Don't really care what amp type it is. I just want to enjoy playing and not be a distraction to anyone else, while doing what we all enjoy and feel a need to do.

Thanks for the time, gents.
 
Invite the music leader to stop by your place and let you audition the Fractal for him.

He needs to be okay with you using the Fractal and from your description there really isn't a good opportunity at rehearsal at church.

Alternately setup a time when you and him can play together through the church's PA. In other words, set up a special audition at the church.
 
1) be tactful and massage the guy's ego whenever possible
2) suggest that you'd like to set up an ac30 patch (or similar)
and try it, to see how it works
3) if he says yes and doesn't like it, then find another band
3) if he says no, then find another band

life's too short to a) deal with opinionated people who are control freaks and b) persevere even though it makes you unhappy
 
He has his biases and he's the leader.

Try to mimic his rig and tone with your AxeFx, maybe tone match it. Once he get's over his first bias, that a digital rig sucks, maybe you can open his mind to other things.
 
I just had to go through this myself moving to a new church a couple weeks ago. All they knew about modelling or going direct was Line 6. I did have to do a re-education of sorts. Let me tell you about my philosophy of playing Worship guitar, it might not work for you, but it has worked for me. I'm a clean amp with a couple different drive pedals in front. I take a basic clean dumble and add two drives, plus use scene controllers on different scenes to change the input trim and input drive on scenes 3 and 5. The two drives as different levels of dirt depending on the song.

I have other presets based on the same type but with different effects in them.

I play mainly single coil guitars in Church music, humbuckers tend to be to dark or too much.

How I got passed the audition with my AXE-FX was to use the Dumble increase the Input Drive and trim to get that Lincoln brewster sound and they were sold. I played the lead to Today is the day and the kicker was playing Fees All because of Jesus with the Dotted 8th delay and they said you're Hired, we love the AXE-FX. You have to have the confidence going in that this is what you use and just be firm that this is your workflow.

All I can say is that I had the same situation and it was the way that I handled it is what eventually changed their mind. If you want to play with my preset PM me and I'll send it over to you. Other peoples presets don't usually work for me because my guitar and the way that I play is a lot different than other ones.


There is a video series with Ben Gowell, the guy who replaced me at CCV in peoria AZ. Its pretty good for some basic understanding. I hate that I'm shilling his stuff the guy that replaced me at a mega church, but oh well it is pretty good.


Ben Gowell


I have been playing Churches small and large for over 25 yrs, it is what I do 100% of the time, musically. If I can be of any help PM me.
 
If hes a guitarist he should understand that your issue isn't a sound thing as much as a feel thing. Every guitarist has probably experienced that one piece of gear that is universally loved that they couldn't get along with for some reason.

As far as recommended sounds, I don't really know that music. But if going for an AC-30 style of tone I typically use the Buttery model.
 
I'd dig in.

Maybe he's too used to conventional ways. But Rodzim is right...the sound man controls you anyway. If not enough of your tone is in the mix, then he can add some. If you REALLY want to go out of your way to make him happy, put a small PA speaker (or any other small FRFR speaker) behind you that has your direct feed.

I'd say no, I won't do the traditional rig, but say 'I will sit down with you and we'll dial in a patch that you like'. If that doesn't mollify him, then I think you should move on. Changing the way you do things to make him happy is just going to make you miserable.

-R
 
He actually text and said he had a feeling I was getting frustrated and wasn't sure why, but wanted to make sure that everything is ok and that I had no intentions of backing out.

I just said I'd like to grab a bite to eat and discuss some stuff, if he's up for it and we can go from there.

Several good suggestions, so I'll mull over a few and figure out the best way to approach it. Humble servanthood is all I'm after in this scenario. No desire to go elsewhere, as we are here with reason and purpose. There's something to learn in every situation, and this is no different.

Ill set up the axe at home with my CLR and break down some very specific tones and patches geared toward specific songs and whatnot, then audition them with him and first win him over on the capabilities, then follow it up with dialogue regarding other things.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Worship gigs are interesting. You're basically in the same environment as the musicians in a music theater production. It's multi-style, rapid switching, moderate-volume gig, and requires very flexible setups to get distinct tones for each section of each song. I toured with a worship artist a few years ago who recorded a live CD / DVD at one our performances. For that run of shows, I used my old (non-Fractal) rig and it required a lot of careful pedalboard tapdancing. Looking back at that tour, I know it would have been SO much easier with the AxeFX, and my tones would have been even better.

When I show up at a gig with my AxeFX, I encounter one of two reactions from the house engineers : (1) "OH AWESOME! An AxeFX!" or (2) "What is that thing? You want me to plug you directly into FOH? Look, I've used modeling amp boxes before and they're horrible..." In the latter case I have to be diplomatic and persuasive. Depending on the venue, I might not have any speakers for them to put a mic in front of, so eventually I convince them to try it. Every single time - and mean with zero exceptions - the FOH operator tells me the AxeFX sounds amazing and makes the mix a lot easier to manage.

If I was regularly performing with a worship band, I would think the AxeFX would be the perfect tool for the job.
 
Fwiw, the FOH engineer loves the thing.. He hates fighting the vox ripping aroun the room (backstage mic'd) and loves that I only add whatever he needs for the mix. He loves the wrecker and JTM patches I use as well. Duck'd delays and verbs, variable drive level tied to my exp pedal.. Lots of compliments from him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
PlaysARobin said:
Fwiw, the FOH engineer loves the thing..
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Well there you go. Bring him along when you go out to lunch with the M.D. Having someone he knows and has worked with (and hopefully respects) in your corner may well make all the difference.
 
I agree with the general consensus here. Life is too short to entertain fools / negative types. Be open and honest, if that doesn't work then leave. Move on. Life is simple to me.. Do what makes you happy.
 
I would just inform him that his setup isn't working for you and that you are going to bring your own. Part of the joy of playing is having your own rig that works for you, just as he has said his rig works for him.
 
Sleestak said:
Worship gigs are interesting. You're basically in the same environment as the musicians in a music theater production. It's multi-style, rapid switching, moderate-volume gig, and requires very flexible setups to get distinct tones for each section of each song. I toured with a worship artist a few years ago who recorded a live CD / DVD at one our performances. For that run of shows, I used my old (non-Fractal) rig and it required a lot of careful pedalboard tapdancing. Looking back at that tour, I know it would have been SO much easier with the AxeFX, and my tones would have been even better.

When I show up at a gig with my AxeFX, I encounter one of two reactions from the house engineers : (1) "OH AWESOME! An AxeFX!" or (2) "What is that thing? You want me to plug you directly into FOH? Look, I've used modeling amp boxes before and they're horrible..." In the latter case I have to be diplomatic and persuasive. Depending on the venue, I might not have any speakers for them to put a mic in front of, so eventually I convince them to try it. Every single time - and mean with zero exceptions - the FOH operator tells me the AxeFX sounds amazing and makes the mix a lot easier to manage.

If I was regularly performing with a worship band, I would think the AxeFX would be the perfect tool for the job.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I was thinking too. In that type of situation versatility is crucial, and the axe is the best combo of sound quality and versatility around. Once that guy realizes what scenes are, I think it will be game over :)
 
I am the band director/praise leader at my church. We play the contemporary stuff you have mentioned. First, you have received some good advice from several of the guys here and you seem to have the correct attitude about it. I would just say that when I started play praise and worship stuff it was with a silent stage in a church that provided line 6"s. I had an Ultra at the time. The in ear monitors were very hard for me to get used to and, couple that with the line 6, well, I really didn't think I could do it. I come from a club environment playing a cranked marshall so it was difficult to say the least. I eventually asked to audition my axe and they loved it. Now I am the leader in a different church and have implemented a silent stage approach like the previous church (which serves as a great model for me). This approach takes some getting used to but absolutely provides the best potential for the best sound in this environment. We are direct with everything, ...even the drums are electronic. But it took some time...

The church usually moves a little slower than we sometimes wish it would, but that can be a good thing. Persevere, you are leading whether they know it or not.
 
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