help with high gain tones

My quick and fast tips:
1) Get rid of the Input Gate (if it's too noisy without it, you're using too much gain... or your room situation sucks. If you need it, use the minimum threshold, and use the sidechain feature on a Gate block, placed at the end of the chain, but "seeing" the start of the chain, to optimise)

I'm not sure what this means? do you mean turning the levels all down ? sidechain feature? I'm completely lost there.


What bands do you like and what amps have the type of gain you like?

I'm getting so many killer high gain sounds using Mark IIC+, the SLO, the XTC, the JCM800, The Herbert.

I like a wide range, but stuff like Killswitch engage, dream theater, fear factory, devildriver, metallica, parkway drive, and most recently nekrogoblikon.

I like the 6505/5150 because I get the best tone out of them. I can't get a decent tone out of the mark IIc+ tho some clips I've heard are great!, I like the rectos, Engl and JVM amps too.

yes, that was the next thing i was going to say. the axe isn't the only part of the signal chain. run some checks on the guitar - tone control wide open? pickups at the right height? guitar cable good? how are you monitoring? what speakers are you using? variables, variables.....

I have 15 guitars, all different styles, single coils, humbuckers, actives, passives, vintage, modern, the guitars all set up correctly. Although I have been using the same cables... I will test with other cables.

I use an Atomic active CLR.


i've found that having the master up quite high and the level low in the amp block on the latest firmware has got me some great tones lately. In previous firmwares I did the opposite - Master lower and boosting the volume with the level.

This is interesting. I have traditionally tended to have the master at noon or lower generally when I was getting great tones in previous firmware, I wonder if I should try what you suggest, I've always been weary of cranking master. Will report back with testing results!

ok. here's me playing some chords through the factory preset called "Brit JVM OD1"

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j6336y17q41epx6/TEST.mp3?dl=0

do the same and see if it's close. i'm using a dimarzio air zone, which is a warm mid output pickup

record it and post the result here

we need to rule out some variables

I don't know how to record to an audio file to the PC hahah, I reviewed your sample and tested my preset with my Gibson les paul traditional. Tone was very similar.
I don't struggle getting these sort of rock tones, I'm moreso trying to get something a bit more saturated and focused, like a devildriver, dream theater or nekrogoblikon tone. a tight, focused, clearly articulated, and saturated tone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yk1WCupiHOI is a sample guitar tone I would be very happy with. Probably heavily post processed I imagine.


In regards to the intelligent gate, I meant i can't get it to work as a noise gate should. When I use it I get weird sound artifacts when muting/gate closes. I can't get it to work very well, I switch to classic, and straight away it works! lol

Thanks again for the responses, I'm inspired to persevere!
 
I'm not sure what this means? do you mean turning the levels all down ? sidechain feature? I'm completely lost there.

Sorry! I shouldn't have assumed you knew what it meant. As to "getting rid of it", I mean going into the actual Input Gate (That first, vertical block on Axe-Edit... I hope you know what I mean), and turning Threshold down until it's off. I dig it this way.

As to the Sidechain, it's actually called "SCSEL (SideChain Select)" and it's in the Gate/Expander block that you manually add to your grid, not the Input one that's on by default, as described above. Sidechaining is really cool - it gates wherever you place it (so if you put it at the end, it will cut the hiss from the amp and everything), but it "sees" the signal where you tell it... so you can tell it to "see" the Input 1 signal, so the gate will be "opened" by any playing noise, but not overreactive due to the compression that the amp etc causes. This is what the Wiki says:

"You can use SCSEL (SideChain Select) to select the signal the gate is working with. If the gate is the first block in the routing there's no need to use SCSEL. But if the gate is placed after other blocks in the routing, it can be useful to use SCSEL to set an optimal source signal, such as Input 1. This is similar to the way the ISP Decimator operates."
Noise gate effect - Axe-Fx II Wiki

EDIT AGAIN: Sorry for the bulk of text, if I still haven't explained sidechaining well, or how to implement it, this thread is much more concise and clear:
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-wish-list/77145-noise-gate-optimisation.html
 
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This may be a gross over simplification and/or common knowledge but I recently found that when playing high gain it really helps to go the trebly route - bridge pickup, etc,... it also cuts into the mix much better in a jam situation.
 
I too was struggling with this. I always intend to sit down and figure it out, but never get round to it. Anyway, I found something that REALLY worked for me in another post recently.

Clarky posted it over in this thread:
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-discussion/101404-marshall-esque-amps-high-gain-tones.html

I love this:
JCM800
Power: MV = Post PI
input drive=6
MV=7
boost and bright switches on

pop a null filter in front of the amp to mimic a TS808 clean
low cut=700
high cut=880

then Van Halen your tits off all night long until the police show up and make you turn it down..


I'd always boosted (think of this as a tightening of the tone, not adding distortion/gain), but the MV Post PI thing was a revelation to me as well as increasing the MV (Master Volume). I was looking for something heavy like Crowbar or Down, so I focused on a Marshall and Orange type sound. I found both worked really well like this. Apparently the Null Filter method uses less CPU than the boost, so I'm going to use that from now on. The big thing here was the "Power: MV = Post PI" setting - try it. It made a massive difference for me. I will now try this for all amps in future.

In the same thread, Hubi said:
That´s also my Setting for the JCM 800 - at MV 7 the amp beginns to "live"!

I previously hadn't bothered much with the Master Volume, but had used the input gains in conjunction with the output level instead. Trust me though - it made a massive difference for me.


So in summary here's what I did:
1. Choose an amp you think you want
2. Focus on selecting a nice cab - do this first as most of the tone is in the cab
3. I always apply a big cut in the cab (60-70hz and then above around 10K - yes, this might sound a bit odd on it's own, but in the mix, it's perfect)
4. Add the Null Filter (or TS) in front of the amp with 0 drive and max volume to hit the front of the amp
5. Change the MV = Post PI in the Power section of the Amp Block
6. Increase the MV to 7 or more
7. Try the Cut options in the Amp block
8. Dial back the gain as much as you can or more than you think.

I've never really needed to play with the EQ in the amp block - everything else is default. I can EQ in the mix if needed.


I did find it quite noisy though, but use the Gate if necessary. Also, I didn't use any reverb as it can make it sound mushy. Sometimes a delay is a better choice.


As previously mentioned, I used these with the Marshall (JCM 800 MOD) and the Orange - let me know if you've tried it with other amps and if other things work with this!
 
I didn't read everyone's posts here because there are quite a few so if I repeat what someone else said, apologies in advance. I usually turn on the boost switch or sat switch and get plenty of gain and saturation that way, and also cut the bass when needed by either turning it down a little or using the cut switch. I use the input gate with no problems and I can get really good tone with most amps set straight up at noon. Hope this helps.
 
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