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help with clean tone

kurtr2

Member
I have been struggling to get the best clean tone from the double verb model. i want a totally clean sound, no fuzz at all on hard hit chords, like i get on a real fender twin. I can only achieve this by putting the input drive on .70. I read that the master volume should be at 10 since its a non master volume type amp.

I am wondering if this is normal that the input drive should be soooo low. I also read that the blackface that was modelled was one that had some breakup to it. so then another question: what is a totally clean model that i can get a good strong clean sound with some midrange like the twin?

thanks,
k
 

kurtr2

Member
in other words- I should be able to turn the volume up to at least 3 and get a clean sound if input drive is the volume control on a fender twin. on the double verb model its totally distorted with input drive at 3 and MV on 10.
 

jlynnb1

Fractal Fanatic
Search function is your friend. You are supposed to decrease the input trim because the amp off modeled had the "Diaz mod" or something like that, makes it break up easier.
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
The Twin Reverb that the model is based on breaks up like that. The model is MIMIC'd and is extremely accurate. It's a Blackface Twin which breaks up easy compared to later Twins. Furthermore, as with all models, it is modeled on the "Hi" input.

If you don't want it to break up as easy turn Input Trim to 0.5 to simulate using the "Low" input, reduce Input Drive and MV as necessary. You may want to turn the Bright Switch off as well. People who want squeaky clean usually turn the Bright Switch off on these amps.

However, you'd be surprised that a Twin isn't nearly as clean as you think. It's just so damn loud that you get the sensation that it's clean because a light touch on the strings creates a lot of volume.

I'm considering putting a Silverface Twin model in there for the people who keep complaining that the Twin breaks up too much even though those sound like crap IMO.
 

moo cow

Inspired
i find that, even though it's recommended that non-MV amps in the Axe should stay with the MV as 10, i almost always turn it down a bit. almost every non-MV has a touch to much hair than i like and the MV takes that hair right off. try it. there is no right or wrong if it sounds good.
 

kurtr2

Member
The Twin Reverb that the model is based on breaks up like that. The model is MIMIC'd and is extremely accurate. It's a Blackface Twin which breaks up easy compared to later Twins. Furthermore, as with all models, it is modeled on the "Hi" input.

If you don't want it to break up as easy turn Input Trim to 0.5 to simulate using the "Low" input, reduce Input Drive and MV as necessary. You may want to turn the Bright Switch off as well. People who want squeaky clean usually turn the Bright Switch off on these amps.

However, you'd be surprised that a Twin isn't nearly as clean as you think. It's just so damn loud that you get the sensation that it's clean because a light touch on the strings creates a lot of volume.

I'm considering putting a Silverface Twin model in there for the people who keep complaining that the Twin breaks up too much even though those sound like crap IMO.
I dont like silverface Twins either. But an original 1965 Blackface Twin can sound great. I am a very experienced guitarist playing all over the world year round on Fender Twins, so I know that in general Twins can be totally clean up to about 3 on the volume knob.

I am hoping that at some point Fractal could model a clean and beautiful blackface Twin from 1965 or thereabouts. I love the Axe-fx but I feel it is too hard to get a clean sound that is full bodied and strong. I hate using the low input channel on a fender Twin...

KR
 

sundance_kiddsg

Experienced
I'm considering putting a Silverface Twin model in there for the people who keep complaining that the Twin breaks up too much even though those sound like crap IMO.
please do! granted the silverface twin isn't the best amp out there, but the first decent amp I could get my hands on when i first started on the electric guitar was a 70s silverface twin. if nothing else, this would bring back fond memories...:encouragement:
 

Randy4Guitars

Power User
I thought the 65 was the hot one and that twin was pretty clean. Maybe I've got them mixed up. The twin is LVC's, right?

I have been using the super reverb a lot lately and it cleans up pretty well, but I think all the fenders do. You need to drop the MV down a few clicks.
 

kurtr2

Member
cool, yeah i've been trying to find the magic MV/Input drive combo to get a totally clean sound. I have managed to get it clean but it does feel that i have almost no input to the amp and the gain staging sounds like its boosting a weak signal, which ends up sounding thin, so this doesnt end up being a great sound nirvana experience in the end result onstage playing with a band. I know the Axe can do it, but I am starting to come to the conclusion that until a truly strong and clean amp is modeled that does not go into breakup easily, I will feel like i am compromising on my tone, which is the opposite of what everyone should feel with this amazing piece of gear!
Cliff- please model a beautiful old warm and clean blackface Twin. Pretty please!

KR
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
I dont like silverface Twins either. But an original 1965 Blackface Twin can sound great. I am a very experienced guitarist playing all over the world year round on Fender Twins, so I know that in general Twins can be totally clean up to about 3 on the volume knob.

I am hoping that at some point Fractal could model a clean and beautiful blackface Twin from 1965 or thereabouts. I love the Axe-fx but I feel it is too hard to get a clean sound that is full bodied and strong. I hate using the low input channel on a fender Twin...

KR
The model is an extremely accurate reproduction of my personal 65 Twin. It's not a reissue.

Your issue is Fletcher-Munson effect. At low volumes things sound thin because our ears have reduced bass response.
 

VeryBadMan

Experienced
My first electric guitar and amp was a Gibson Melody Maker 60'S and a 70s silverface twin , man I hated that amp it would NOT break up . I wanted to rock, that amp was clean and loud . I loaned it to a friend once to play in his band and he blew my speaker trying to get it to distort. IMHO there are plenty of great Fender + Fender derived cleans to be found in the AXEFX . Sometimes just backing off the guitars vol gets me some amazing tones !
Having a silverface twin modeled would not bring back fond memories for me.
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
I thought the 65 was the hot one and that twin was pretty clean. Maybe I've got them mixed up. The twin is LVC's, right?

I have been using the super reverb a lot lately and it cleans up pretty well, but I think all the fenders do. You need to drop the MV down a few clicks.
IIRC the Twin *was* LVCs, LOL. I have so many amps I've forgotten where I got many of them from but I think I bought the Twin from LVC.
 

barhrecords

Axe-Master
I'm going to stand up for the Silverface Twin! :)

I've got a very early one, and yeah its not got the richness of the Blackface circuit. But its a good journey man's amp. Loud and clear and takes pedals really well.

In my experience, a good clean high headroom Twin is a very usable amp for gigging. It just needs some good drives in front and you are good to go.

Even better for me, I've got a Silverface Dual Showman head. That is the loudest Fender I've ever heard. Headroom for days.

I think the current Twin in the AxeFx sounds killer though!!! Love that model.

With even low output vintage humbuckers, you must lower your guitar volume to not break up most Fenders. Even the Silverface's will grind with a Les Paul wide open. Rollback your guitar volume.

Also, with the input trim control, you can get the AxeFx Twin with zero breakup. Even with hard strumming. Try that on a real Twin (without a soldering iron) :)
 

joegold

Fractal Fanatic
I have been struggling to get the best clean tone from the double verb model. i want a totally clean sound, no fuzz at all on hard hit chords, like i get on a real fender twin. I can only achieve this by putting the input drive on .70. I read that the master volume should be at 10 since its a non master volume type amp.

I am wondering if this is normal that the input drive should be soooo low. I also read that the blackface that was modelled was one that had some breakup to it. so then another question: what is a totally clean model that i can get a good strong clean sound with some midrange like the twin?

thanks,
k
Hi Kurt

First off I need to say what a fan I am and how much I love your playing and writing.
It's great to see a jazz player of your calibre using the Axe-FX.
In the jazz guitar world, where there's still more guys using Polytone and Lunchbox amps, this type of gear is often seen as excessive or as a way to hide bad technique.
Nobody could accuse you of the latter.
And while I've often felt a bit excessive taking my Axe rig to big band gigs and small jazz club gigs, the fact that you're using one too makes me feel better. hehe

So, I've struggled with the same issues as you in trying to nail my signature clean tone.
You often play with a slightly brighter tone than what I tend to go for so you might have less issues with some of the levelling problems I been having when running FRFR.

Please check out the posts that start yesterday in the following long thread that I started way back in late October:
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/amps-cabs/76024-atomic-clr-new-user-what-might-i-doing-wrong.html:

Here's my basic preset for straight ahead playing (with a neck humbucker - 57 Classic).
View attachment J1 HB.syx

If you run your rig through a power amp and guitar cabs, it'll be best if you delete every block except the Amp Block and the FX Loop Block (and maybe the Reverb Block) and replace them with shunts.
I have certain Ext controller assignments for my rig that will screw too many things up and make it too confusing to hear the Amp Block tone if you don't delete all those blocks.
You'll also need to use the Out 2 jacks of the Axe because this is where the signal that is not running through the Cab Block comes out.
I use EVM-12Ls in open back cabs myself.

If you're going through an FRFR system then you'll need to delete every block except the Amp Block, the Reverb Block, The 2 Mixer Blocks, and the 2 Cab Blocks and replace them with shunts, for the same reason stated above.
I've set the Cab Block to Factory 119 (EV in a Thiele I believe) but it's a little bassier than the Ownhammer IR I usually use, so you might need to use the Cab Block's built in bass attenuation somewhat.

In the Amp Block, it's just a stock DoubleVerb-based setting using mostly default parameters.
I think the only thing I've changed, besides the basic Gain, TMB an Master controls is the Lo Spkr Res Freq - and I've turned off the Bright Switch.
Note that I've got the Gain on 3 so it stays pretty clean no matter how hard I play, including block chording.
But it does still have a bit of fur on it if you listen closely.
If that's a drag for you, as other folks in this thread have said, you can reduce the Input Trim of the amp Block a bit.
You'll probably also want to turn the Treble up just a bit.
I'm kind of still after that real dark Metheny/Martino tone that everybody loves to hate these days. hehe
So I like it real dark.

Anyway, I hope this helps you out in some way.
Sorry if I'm coming off as a gushing fanboy, but that's an accurate description.
All the best.
 

aziz

Power User
Band commander will easily give a nice clean without "hair trouble". Lower the master and drive until you like what you hear. On the other hand, change guitar and crank everything = rock tones, or all the way up to ridiculous metal tones with the right IR's.


Oh, also, if you like SRV'ish strat sparkle and spank, absolutely get Tyler Grund's (Gamedojo) JBL 130 -IR from his page: http://www.tylergrund.com/axefx2_11.0.html
 
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