Help with adding additional Scene Controllers

[Mateo11]

Hello everyone...

I have my presets set up for Scenes 1-4. Scene 1 Clean t > Scene 2 Breakup > Scene 3 Crunch > Scene 4 Lead. I attach a scene controller to the input drive and use scenes to adjust the gain through scenes 1-4.

I use Scene 2 to control the Volume in a PARA EQ across the scenes same as above just for the Para EQ Volume this time.

This is exactly how Fremen's "5 scenes presets" are set up.

I noticed on Fremen's "5 scenes presets" though he attaches ANOTHER Scene Controller to Scene 1 that adjusts various Input Trim gain levels across the scenes 1-5.

I cant figure out how to do this and have been racking my brain.

I thought since you only have TWO Scene controllers available in the Scene Control Section then you can only attach 2 parameter controls. In my case and Fremen's 1 scene is for the input drive and the 2nd scene if for the Para EQ.

How do you attach another variable control to scene 1 to adjust the input trim across scenes 1-4? Say Scene 1 at .25% Scene 2 40% Scene 3 50% etc when you already have Scene 1 attached to the input drive adjust the gain across scenes?

Thanks!

 

[Moke]

Each of the two 'Scene Controllers' can be attached to multiple parameters in multiple blocks. When you attach more than one parameter to a 'Scene Controller', they share the same % values of the 'Scene Controller'... Example 10% in scene 1, 30% in scene 2, 50% in scene 3, etc..... Each attached parameter has it's own 'Modifier Edit Window'. So you can adjust the Min, Max. Start, Mid, End, etc.... parameters.

 

[Mateo11]

Each of the two 'Scene Controllers' can be attached to multiple parameters in multiple blocks. When you attach more than one parameter to a 'Scene Controller', they share the same % values of the 'Scene Controller'... Example 10% in scene 1, 30% in scene 2, 50% in scene 3, etc..... Each attached parameter has it's own 'Modifier Edit Window'. So you can adjust the Min, Max. Start, Mid, End, etc.... parameters.

Thanks for the reply Moke. To see if I understand.....

Say Scene 1 Controller is attached to INPUT DRIVE with the following parameters. Scene 1 10% , Scene 2 20% , Scene 3 50% and Scene 4 70%.

I would like to attach another Scene 1 controller to INPUT TRIM. Scene 1 at 5%, Scene 2 15%, Scene 3 35% and Scene 4 50%.

Are you saying if I want to attach another Scene Controller 1 to INPUT TRIM then IINPUT TRIM would have to be at the exact same settings according to the INPUT DRIVE settings above?

Or are you saying I can set those parameters in the "Modifier edit window." If yes to the latter how do set each scene in the 'modifier edit window" to get Scene 1 at 5%, Scene 2 15%, Scene 3 35% and Scene 4 50%?

Thanks for your help man!

 

[Moke]

You can attach up to a maximum of 16 modifiers in a preset on the AX8 (24 in the Axe-Fx II). So you could possibly attach 16 different parameters across multiple blocks to a single 'Scene Controller'. Set the Minimum and Maximum values of each one (including inverted settings, Min @ 10, Max @ 0?), set the 'Mid' points (and other 'curve' adjustments) for each, as well as different dampening times for each attachment.

 

[Moke]

Thanks for the reply Moke. To see if I understand.....

Say Scene 1 Controller is attached to INPUT DRIVE with the following parameters. Scene 1 10% , Scene 2 20% , Scene 3 50% and Scene 4 70%.

I would like to attach another Scene 1 controller to INPUT TRIM. Scene 1 at 5%, Scene 2 15%, Scene 3 35% and Scene 4 50%.

Are you saying if I want to attach another Scene Controller 1 to INPUT TRIM then IINPUT TRIM would have to be at the exact same settings according to the INPUT DRIVE settings above?

Or are you saying I can set those parameters in the "Modifier edit window." If yes to the latter how do set each scene in the 'modifier edit window" to get Scene 1 at 5%, Scene 2 15%, Scene 3 35% and Scene 4 50%?

Thanks for your help man!

They will share the same % values for each scene. But you can set the Minimum and Maximum values for each attachment.

 

[Moke]

Help with this kind of thing is often requested in my on-line training sessions. Take a real good look at the settings in Fremen's presets, that may help you understand it better.

 

[Mateo11]

They will share the same % values for each scene. But you can set the Minimum and Maximum values for each attachment.

OK, Where I am still confused on Fremen's preset he has the following:

Scene Controller 1 attached to INPUT DRIVE: Scene 1 0%, Scene 2 25% , Scene 3 44% , Scene 4 53% and Scene 5 100%

Scene Controller 1 attached to INPUT TRIM:

HOPE THE PICS BELOW SHOW UP!

******Scene 4 of Input Trim

******Scene 3 of

This is where I am getting confused. I see you can set a min and max value in the edit window but as you can see between these two scenes the values for the Input Drive and Input Trim are not following the same exact values. (and the input trim are different values between each scene)

I have literally been racking my brain with this and not sure if its super obvious and I am missing it or what? Anyways thanks for your help. Im sure Ill get it one day ha

 

[Mateo11]

 

[Moke]

The numbers that you see in the editor are just the value that that scene is currently at when you looked at that page. If you reload the preset, go to scene 4, then look at the Amp block, you will see the values of those parameters for scene 4. It's just an anomaly. Those numbers do not get updated in real time.... just look at the positions of the knobs when you change scenes. They will move in real time.

 

[Mateo11]

The numbers that you see in the editor are just the value that that scene is currently at when you looked at that page. If you reload the preset, go to scene 4, then look at the Amp block, you will see the values of those parameters for scene 4. It's just an anomaly. Those numbers do not get updated in real time.... just look at the positions of the knobs when you change scenes. They will move in real time.

Thanks. Yes I got that the numbers don't change when switching back/forth from scenes but the positions of the knobs do. To me it looks like the positions of the knobs are not lining up to the same values. The input drive is substantially higher (on the knobs) to the Input trim.

He's got the edit window for the input trim set to min .205 and max 1.2.

I would just figure if they (Input Drive and Input Trim) have to adhere to the same values if using the same scene controller (1) then the knobs would display exactly the same for each. In the above Pics they are different.

Sorry I am wearing you out on this. Just really want to "get it" because it would definitely help my presets and level of understanding.

 

[chris]

Thanks. Yes I got that the numbers don't change when switching back/forth from scenes but the positions of the knobs do. To me it looks like the positions of the knobs are not lining up to the same values. The input drive is substantially higher (on the knobs) to the Input trim.

He's got the edit window for the input trim set to min .205 and max 1.2.

I would just figure if they (Input Drive and Input Trim) have to adhere to the same values if using the same scene controller (1) then the knobs would display exactly the same for each. In the above Pics they are different.

Sorry I am wearing you out on this. Just really want to "get it" because it would definitely help my presets and level of understanding.

those 2 knobs might be on different scale, so knob positions won't be the same.

 

[jefferski]

Exactly. In other words, the Drive might go from 3 to 8, while the Trim goes from 1-4. So then 0% of each would the lower value and 100% would be the higher. The in-between values will then follow that scale for each.

You can also invert one of the curves (the Min and Max values) so for example you could increase the Drive while lowering the volume a few db (in say the Volume block) to keep the level more consistent.

 

[Mateo11]

those 2 knobs might be on different scale, so knob positions won't be the same.

Aha thanks...I didn't even think about it being set to a different scale.

Is there a way to do what I am trying to do which is set different unique parameters attached to the same scene controller? I am guessing its a no. ha

 

[Mateo11]

What I am running into is since I set my presets up from clean to lead I have to use one scene controller for a Volume parameter to level the volume across the scenes.

All amp models have an input drive which is critical to adjust going from clean to lead across presets so there goes the 2nd other allotted Scene Controller.

If the amp model has a Master Volume then that would be very critical as well to set gain stages throughout the scenes.

I am guessing this is why Fremen uses the input trim control and just follows the input gain settings and keeps the Master Volume set to a static point. Although his presets are great I would think using input trim to adjust/control the Power Amp section would be less than optimal but only available workaround.

Im still learning only had the AX8 a couple months so maybe there is a way...

 

[Moke]

Remember that the 'Scene Controller' % is the % of the range as set by the 'Min' and 'Max' values.

Ex. 1... Min setting of 4.00 and a Max setting of 6.00.......0% += 4.00, 50% = 5.00, 100% = 6.00.......
Ex. 2....Min setting of 2.50 and a Max setting of 5.00.......0% += 2.50, 50% = 3.75, 100% = 5.00.......
Ex. 2....Min setting of 0 and a Max setting of 100.......0% += 0, 50% = 50, 100% = 100.......

Each attachment (even when using the same controller) has it's own 'Edit Modifier' window with all of it's own settings..............very powerful..

 

[Smittefar]

Have you watched this video?


It shows how to get a lot of mileage from a single scene controller.

 

[Mateo11]

Have you watched this video?


It shows how to get a lot of mileage from a single scene controller.

I havent. Thanks for posting. Im going to watch it now.

 

[Mateo11]

Have you watched this video?


It shows how to get a lot of mileage from a single scene controller.

WOW!! That video is AMAZING!!! Thank you!!! I knew there had to be a way to do what I was looking to do and after watching it can do a lot more than I probably will ever need. ha Perfect! Thanks again!

 

[Mateo11]

Have you watched this video?


It shows how to get a lot of mileage from a single scene controller.

@Smittefar

I have one question for you please. In your video you show how to do a 3 scene preset with clean, rhythm and lead and the "Edit Modifier Window" has the "Start, Middle & End" which corresponds to each one of the three scenes.

What if you were doing a preset with 4 different scenes? Say Scene 1 = Clean, Scene 2 =edge Breakup, Scene 3 =Rhythm and Scene 4 =Lead.

Thanks!

 

[Stringer76]

I am working this exact issue right now and have found that it gets increasingly difficult to coordinate changes across multiple parameters with the same scene controller when you go above three (because you can only specifically control the start, middle and end values for each parameter). Above three, you will fall somewhere in between these three specified values. You have to do some calculation to make sure the middle value ends up what you want, but it is possible in this way to get three exact values for each parameter you hook to a given scene controller. The way I look at it now is that most real amps have three channels to use live, and I can think of my virtual rig the same way. So I have three amp tones controlled by scene controllers. I then get any more tonal or gain varieties I need by using a drive block, which I can also vary with the same scene controller. This yields me (if I need it) nine exactly controllable tones in a preset - amp with no drive, amp with drive x and amp with drive y for each of the start, middle and end scene controller values. This is like a three channel amp with two available drives for each channel.