HELP - Why do my USA Lead patches (Ld/Ld Brt/Ld+/Ld Brt+) sound terrible since 11.00?

shredi knight

Power User
I've been struggling with my patches that use the USA Lead amp models (Mesa Boogie Mark IV - not the IIc+) since the release of firmware 11.00. I've gone back & forth between 10.12 & 11.03 several times now, but I can not get these patches to sound like they used to, or even good at all. Though they have a lot of gain, with 10.12 these patches were very tight sounding and very clear with no mud. After 11.00, they are a loose, flubby, over-distorted, muddy mess. These models all seem to have been irreparably changed, though according to Cliff, they are among the amp models that were supposed to have been the least affected by the new firmware.


I've re-tweaked till I was blue in the face, reset the amp block, put the amp sim's bass control at 0 & taken out any low-end that was being added (and these patches aren't bass/low-end heavy at all). Raising the low cut worked on getting the flub under control, but only with extreme settings and then it sounded and felt weird. I just can't seem to get rid of this flubby/muddy/bassy/dark character the amp sims now have. And this is with one of the Drive pedal sims in front of the amp block as a clean boost. The Drive sim is supposed to be making what should already be a tight sounding amp even tighter (The Mark IV is known for being a very tight sounding amp). It's almost as if the Drive sim is adding bass instead of cutting it and making it tighter. These same patches in 10.12 sound less flubby without a Drive sim in front of the amp than they do in 11.03 with one.


The point is, I don't understand why I need to apply such extensive re-tweaking (that isn't working) to amp sims that weren't supposed to have been that greatly affected by the firmware update. So that has me wondering if that maybe there is something wrong with the USA Leads. The USA IIc+ amp models (which were tweaked some by Cliff right after the release of 11.00) don't suffer from this problem. Settings that sound dark and flubby with one of the USA Leads sound very present and tight with the USA IIc+'s. Before 11.00, using the same settings on these amp sims garnered similar results.



Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. Maybe Cliff will take a look at those amp models and see if there is a problem. For the time being, I'm staying on 10.03. The USA Lead sims are primarily what I use in the Axe-Fx and they are useless to me in their current state.

Thanks. :)



P.S. Cliff, if you do see this, why does the power tube bias in all (I think it's all anyway) the USA Lead/IIc+ amp models default to 0.500 since 11.00? Mesa's Mark amps are known for having a very cold bias - around 0.200. Why the change to such a hot bias setting?
 
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I just wonder if you have moved your monitors recently. Its strange that the flubb is less when recorded.

The bias setting I think reflects that the lead models are simul-class, ie something between class AB and class A.
 
I just wonder if you have moved your monitors recently. Its strange that the flubb is less when recorded.
.

No, monitors have not moved (I'm actually super anal about them.......and everything else :razz.......and keep them at exact measured positions on my desk). Irrelevant anyway, because I've gone back & forth between 10.12 & 11.03 several times and my patches always sound great on 10.12 (and terrible on 11.03). I should have also mentioned that my monitor's eq is set flat, so there is no boost or anything to the bass.

I also should have mentioned that I checked and all Globals on the Axe-Fx are set correctly/flat.
 
Clips don't work when you click on the Soundcloud graphic.
They do work when clicking on the link.
 
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I've been struggling with my patches that use the USA Lead amp models... I've re-tweaked till I was blue in the face

I had the same problems until I bought a used Triaxis / Stereo 2:Ninety. The first ten factory presets are so good that I just turn the thing on and play.
 
Have you tried auditioning different cab IR's?, I understand that direct recordings will sometimes sound different from one that has been tuned for a monitor or live setting but the first two clips sound overly bright with the last comparison clip sounding better but darker. If you have tweaked the amp sims 7 ways to sunday then it time to start from scratch and use a different IR.
 
I have to agree the first clip sounds like there is no cab, and that either you have to much pick attack/compression going on or there's a metronome in the background. :) The second clip sounds much better, probably not what you were hoping to hear, BUT I do hear the flub.

Are you having any issues with your IR's clipping more then usual? The reason I ask is since the V11 added punch this was happening to me.
 
Could you post your Mark IV preset? I was curious so I made a couple presets with similar settings on each and they sounded fine ... the midrange character was a bit different (brighter on the c+) but there was no flub on the Mark IV patch and could probably make them sound almost identical if I tweaked a bit more.. Have you rewritten from a blank preset? I had to do that with the FAS MOD in the past but in the end it was much easier and better sounding after I started from scratch.
 
That first clip sounds horrible like there's no cab block.

My thoughts as well but, not accounting for tastes, his v11 clip sounds like it has more flub. I'm not sure why though because I can dial it in with good results here.

You said your recordings sound different? Maybe there is something going on with your setup?
 
The op is stating alls well at FW10.03 .....but problems with Fw11.xx.

I think something else is amiss other than just changing irs. He says MIIC+ sims are fine but the other USA sims are the issue.
 
This patch was not created for going direct and sounds a lot different (and a lot better) going through my monitors. I'm not sure why, I have good quality FRFR active monitors (Dynaudio BM5A). Whenever I make a clip, it's seems like whatever the tone lacks gets even more diminished (in this case, the low end - like I mentioned above) and whatever it has plenty of gets emphasized even more (in this case, the high end, since it is a bright sounding patch).



Though this isn't a clip of a Mark IV (it's a 5153), here's a YouTube clip that actually sounds a lot like what this patch does when played through my monitors (obvious mine has a lot more gain). It's a bright, sharp tone to be sure, but in a good way (imho):


(Playing starts at 0:20)




Now if you don't like that either, we'll just agree to having different tastes. :)



Anyway, I'm going to take the clips down since they aren't really helping my point at all. A friend of mine said he could hear a definite difference between the 10.12/11.03 clips, so I included them. And that was the point of this thread - To try and find out why my 10.12 patches are so different with 11.03 (especially since the USA Leads were supposed to have been hardly affected). And also to maybe have Cliff take a look and see if something was up with those models.
 
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Are you using AE? Or were any of your patches done with prior AE versions? I have seen cabs get reset to 6 inch speaker. Sounds similar.
 
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