Help Requested: BF Deluxe

flash6

Inspired
This is the tone in my head when I think "Deluxe Reverb":




I can't get it right on the Axe FX. I'm missing...Not sure what it is...The spank? Responsiveness? Sensitivity? Sparkle? Balls? All of the above?

I've set the EQ exactly like the video (treble 4; bass 2.5). I've tried many combinations of IRs, both factory and 3rd party. It's just not nearly as good.

And I know some of this has to do with the reverb. I found that the Deluxe Spring gets closest. Something tells me that reverb EQ might be the key, but I can't get it right.

This has bugged me for years. I've chased this sound on all of the modelers I've owned, which includes just about every POD, Mustangs, Tonelabs, AX8, and finally the Axe FX III.

My preset is attached. Each of the three scenes corresponds to the three sections of the video. Any suggestions are hugely appreciated.
 

Attachments

  • Deluxe Reverb.syx
    48.2 KB · Views: 16
A big part of what you are hearing in that video is volume and compression. He's got the amp turned up to around 4.5 to start which is pretty darn loud for a 22 watt amp. It's making the camera mic compress or limit and it's emphasizing the snappy attack even more. He's likely around 100 dB when he's got it cranked. He also stated that he has 5881 power tubes in it, which will affect the tone as well. They also draw twice the heater current and have nearly 3 times the max plate dissipation as 6V6's, so I personally wouldn't run them like that for very long with stock transformers.

You can use the Out Comp settings in the amp block or try putting a compressor block after the amp block to add more compression to the sound.
 
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As mr_fender mentioned, you really have to crank a DR to get those overdriven tones in the latter portion of the video. Try raising the master volume on your preset and putting a short spring reverb block after it. If you're shooting for a spanky clean tone then try a compressor in front of the amp with the MV down a bit. However, if you want that dirty sound skip the compressor for a more natural sounding overdrive and jack up the MV. Hope that helps.

edit: IR's are a huge part of your tone, clean or otherwise, and for me the OwnHammer Deluxe Reverb IR's really brought my Fender Blackface presets to life.
 
Without listening to the video or checking your preset, one thing to keep in mind: the Axe Fx is modeling a close mic'd speaker and the video is a camera mic in the room at some distance. Those are 2 very different things.
 
Thanks for the replies.

I took some time this afternoon to fool around with compression. It might help a little. There's something else going on. I still can't get the sort of liveliness that exists on the video.


A big part of what you are hearing in that video is volume and compression. He's got the amp turned up to around 4.5 to start which is pretty darn loud for a 22 watt amp. It's making the camera mic compress or limit and it's emphasizing the snappy attack even more. He's likely around 100 dB when he's got it cranked. He also stated that he has 5881 power tubes in it, which will affect the tone as well. They also draw twice the heater current and have nearly 3 times the max plate dissipation as 6V6's, so I personally wouldn't run them like that for very long with stock transformers.

You can use the Out Comp settings in the amp block or try putting a compressor block after the amp block to add more compression to the sound.

The preset I included on the OP includes 5881 tubes. Doesn't seem to make much difference on the Axe.

Is there another way to mimic the heater current / plate dissipation you mentioned? (I don't even know what either of those phrases mean or what they would do, but they sound cool. haha)


As mr_fender mentioned, you really have to crank a DR to get those overdriven tones in the latter portion of the video. Try raising the master volume on your preset and putting a short spring reverb block after it. If you're shooting for a spanky clean tone then try a compressor in front of the amp with the MV down a bit. However, if you want that dirty sound skip the compressor for a more natural sounding overdrive and jack up the MV. Hope that helps.

edit: IR's are a huge part of your tone, clean or otherwise, and for me the OwnHammer Deluxe Reverb IR's really brought my Fender Blackface presets to life.

The master is on 10 on my preset. I agree with your thought process tho - pushing that amp to its limits.

I have the OwnHammer Deluxe Reverb IRs. That's actually what I have loaded on channel B of the cab block on my preset. I saved it with the factory IRs on channel A tho, just so it work for everyone.


Without listening to the video or checking your preset, one thing to keep in mind: the Axe Fx is modeling a close mic'd speaker and the video is a camera mic in the room at some distance. Those are 2 very different things.

Totally agree - very different. But shouldn't professionally produced IRs sound better / more lively than the camera mic? Yet the audio on the video sounds better. I don't think it's the mic. It's the amp.

I did try some far field IRs, however. The near field versions sound closer, pun intended <groan>.
 
Also try a shorter IR length (1024, 512) or some smoothing in the CAB block which some say simulates amp-in-the-room (AITR) by smearing details in the IR.
 
Totally agree - very different. But shouldn't professionally produced IRs sound better / more lively than the camera mic? Yet the audio on the video sounds better. I don't think it's the mic. It's the amp.

I did try some far field IRs, however. The near field versions sound closer, pun intended <groan>.
A couple people already mentioned compression of the camera mic and the room.

Those things won't be in an IR and may be closer to what you are used to hearing in the room with an amp.

Your ears will also compress with high SPL...
 
@flash6

A little late perhaps, but I'll chime in as well. @mr_fender raises some good and significant issues, and to add on to that a little; Knowing the '68 in the vid was running 5881s (and watching the attached vid and his vid on his Tweed Bassman), I wouldn't be surprised if these amps have more significant mods rather than someone just tossing in some 6L6/5881 in place of the original 6V6 tubes (or a tube upgrade on the Bassman). I used to work on tube amps, restoring and doing some mods, and the only Fender from the '50s - '60s I worked on (quite a few) with similar tones, had mods involving an additional gain stage (repurposed 1/2 12AX7) and other tweaking throughout (including a couple of small circuitboards to facilitate switching and signal pathway). I also wouldn't be surprised if the original poster of the video has a specific amp tech dial in "his" preferred sound. Or perhaps he is just a lucky SOB who had at least two prime boxes fall in his lap. lol I know he is a pro and has recorded with many, which can help with some of my referenced luck. ;) Ultimately, I'm suggesting you probably won't fully replicate the sound from the video, using the DR amp in the AF3. The modeling of the DR is as far as I can tell, spot on, but we don't have access to every component that is under the hood, and (if my suspicions are correct about the '68 DR) even if we did, you might need access to non-standard components in order to replicate the video. Just my $.02, but remember some of the other amp models in the AF3 may align better, and create a similar sonic experience. This may be of no value to you, and it certainly doesn't hurt (and will do no harm) to go down the rabbit hole as you may just prove this old dude wrong. Cheers and best of luck either way. Don't forget to make some music. Lee
 
Here is my try for a good deluxe reverb sound. Took me 5 minutes or so. I like the stock deluxe IR´s, because there sounding fat. Comp ist Pete Thorn clean comp. I love it. I play a lot of times with headphones (AKG K701), so I use the room parameters. A lot of people don´t try it: But it´s so important if you wan´t to have the amp-in-the-room sound. The filter is a trick for fender amps. Someone told me somewhere. I don´t know how it works, but it´s great for fender style amps. Maybe try the multi-band compressor.

BUT: The guy in the video plays a custom shop tele, with great sounding midrange and a nice top end. If you don´t have a guitar simular to this, you won´t come near to the magic of the sound. The soundquality of the recording is very bad to my ears, as it has been written before. Way to much compression. My tip: Don´t try to copy too much, because you don´t have the fingers and the guitar of the player in this video. It won´t work. Good luck from germany! Sorry for my english.
 

Attachments

  • Deluxe Reverb.syx
    48.2 KB · Views: 21
I forgot: I think there is a lot of gain even in the "clean" sound. And the guy is not playing hard. Adjust the gain to your guitar. And I forgot to use the spring reverb.
 
@flash6

A little late perhaps, but I'll chime in as well. @mr_fender raises some good and significant issues, and to add on to that a little; Knowing the '68 in the vid was running 5881s (and watching the attached vid and his vid on his Tweed Bassman), I wouldn't be surprised if these amps have more significant mods rather than someone just tossing in some 6L6/5881 in place of the original 6V6 tubes (or a tube upgrade on the Bassman). I used to work on tube amps, restoring and doing some mods, and the only Fender from the '50s - '60s I worked on (quite a few) with similar tones, had mods involving an additional gain stage (repurposed 1/2 12AX7) and other tweaking throughout (including a couple of small circuitboards to facilitate switching and signal pathway). I also wouldn't be surprised if the original poster of the video has a specific amp tech dial in "his" preferred sound. Or perhaps he is just a lucky SOB who had at least two prime boxes fall in his lap. lol I know he is a pro and has recorded with many, which can help with some of my referenced luck. ;) Ultimately, I'm suggesting you probably won't fully replicate the sound from the video, using the DR amp in the AF3. The modeling of the DR is as far as I can tell, spot on, but we don't have access to every component that is under the hood, and (if my suspicions are correct about the '68 DR) even if we did, you might need access to non-standard components in order to replicate the video. Just my $.02, but remember some of the other amp models in the AF3 may align better, and create a similar sonic experience. This may be of no value to you, and it certainly doesn't hurt (and will do no harm) to go down the rabbit hole as you may just prove this old dude wrong. Cheers and best of luck either way. Don't forget to make some music. Lee

Here is my try for a good deluxe reverb sound. Took me 5 minutes or so. I like the stock deluxe IR´s, because there sounding fat. Comp ist Pete Thorn clean comp. I love it. I play a lot of times with headphones (AKG K701), so I use the room parameters. A lot of people don´t try it: But it´s so important if you wan´t to have the amp-in-the-room sound. The filter is a trick for fender amps. Someone told me somewhere. I don´t know how it works, but it´s great for fender style amps. Maybe try the multi-band compressor.

BUT: The guy in the video plays a custom shop tele, with great sounding midrange and a nice top end. If you don´t have a guitar simular to this, you won´t come near to the magic of the sound. The soundquality of the recording is very bad to my ears, as it has been written before. Way to much compression. My tip: Don´t try to copy too much, because you don´t have the fingers and the guitar of the player in this video. It won´t work. Good luck from germany! Sorry for my english.

I forgot: I think there is a lot of gain even in the "clean" sound. And the guy is not playing hard. Adjust the gain to your guitar. And I forgot to use the spring reverb.

Excellent observations. I think you're both right - it's just not going to happen with the Axe Fx.

And @Hamsworld, I'm always amazed when someone has command of a second language. Your English is excellent.
 
@flash6

Glad it was useful to you. Just remember not to limit yourself when trying to replicate a tone, as the tones you hear from recordings aren't always just the amp sounding like it does in solitude and just standing in front playing. For this specific tone check out some of the Vox-types and the Trainwrecks (as well as the range of Dumble-types) as I hear some of these good tones in a range of amps, and of course, the IR normally plays a large part. Have fun and make music! Cheers, Lee
 
Here is my try for a good deluxe reverb sound. Took me 5 minutes or so. I like the stock deluxe IR´s, because there sounding fat. Comp ist Pete Thorn clean comp. I love it. I play a lot of times with headphones (AKG K701), so I use the room parameters. A lot of people don´t try it: But it´s so important if you wan´t to have the amp-in-the-room sound. The filter is a trick for fender amps. Someone told me somewhere. I don´t know how it works, but it´s great for fender style amps. Maybe try the multi-band compressor.

BUT: The guy in the video plays a custom shop tele, with great sounding midrange and a nice top end. If you don´t have a guitar simular to this, you won´t come near to the magic of the sound. The soundquality of the recording is very bad to my ears, as it has been written before. Way to much compression. My tip: Don´t try to copy too much, because you don´t have the fingers and the guitar of the player in this video. It won´t work. Good luck from germany! Sorry for my english.
Loaded up your preset, cranked it up, and it reminded me of this....so i hit record. :)
p90s and a Deluxe are always yummy.

 
Without listening to the video or checking your preset, one thing to keep in mind: the Axe Fx is modeling a close mic'd speaker and the video is a camera mic in the room at some distance. Those are 2 very different things.
came here to say this....
 
Thanks for the replies.

I took some time this afternoon to fool around with compression. It might help a little. There's something else going on. I still can't get the sort of liveliness that exists on the video.




The preset I included on the OP includes 5881 tubes. Doesn't seem to make much difference on the Axe.

Is there another way to mimic the heater current / plate dissipation you mentioned? (I don't even know what either of those phrases mean or what they would do, but they sound cool. haha)




The master is on 10 on my preset. I agree with your thought process tho - pushing that amp to its limits.

I have the OwnHammer Deluxe Reverb IRs. That's actually what I have loaded on channel B of the cab block on my preset. I saved it with the factory IRs on channel A tho, just so it work for everyone.




Totally agree - very different. But shouldn't professionally produced IRs sound better / more lively than the camera mic? Yet the audio on the video sounds better. I don't think it's the mic. It's the amp.

I did try some far field IRs, however. The near field versions sound closer, pun intended <groan>.
No, not really, that's not how it works. An off axis in the room recording is catching the sound in various phases from a bunch of different angles (including and imho most importantly, the back of the speaker sound shooting out f an open back cab)...before we even get to the camera/mic compression etc. There's no way any close mic'd IR can replicate that, doesn't matter who's shooting it. Just two totally different paradigms and one the Axe isn't meant to replicate unless being fed through a power amp into an actual cab.
 
No, not really, that's not how it works. An off axis in the room recording is catching the sound in various phases from a bunch of different angles (including and imho most importantly, the back of the speaker sound shooting out f an open back cab)...before we even get to the camera/mic compression etc. There's no way any close mic'd IR can replicate that, doesn't matter who's shooting it. Just two totally different paradigms and one the Axe isn't meant to replicate unless being fed through a power amp into an actual cab.
Makes sense.

Now if somebody can just help me get that tone out of my head 🤣
 
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