Help please with gain staging

don_joe

Experienced
Hi!

I would be glad if someone could help me solve an amplification problem.

After a long time I'm jamming with my friends again and something is not quite right in my signal chain. I have an Axe FX going into Atomic CLR active speaker. It sounded totally congested at higher volume. We've noticed that the signal in bypass mode (only speaker volume) is much lower than with an active preset. My friend's logic was that those two signals should be of somewhat same level and that there is too much amplification going on before the speaker. For example, if I lower the amp block master output, it sounds much more open and better (but no signal is visible on the dB meter under utility and it usually tickles 0 dB by all presets). Also if I play some music from my laptop connected via USB, it is also much louder than the guitar thru bypass.

Is it possible that I have to adjust the Axe output level somewhere to match the presets output (and Axe internal sound card) with bypass mode or is this normal. Where could I find this output parameter?

I hope that you understand my question. Thanks a lot in advance.
 
It's not necessary to make preset output levels as low as bypassed level.

If you think the Axe output level is distorting something in the CLR, try turning down the Axe output knob a bit, then increase CLR volume knob to get desired volume.
 
The guitar 'thru bypass' is an 'Instrument' level output. When you are going through the preset with amp and cab sims set to '0' on the internal Horizontal VU meter, your at a 'Line' level output.
 
It's not necessary to make preset output levels as low as bypassed level.

If you think the Axe output level is distorting something in the CLR, try turning down the Axe output knob a bit, then increase CLR volume knob to get desired volume.

Yes, it's probably simple as that. Thanks!
 
Many thanks to all of you for your quick response. You gave me an idea to try out tomorrow. Cheers.
 
"For example, if I lower the amp block master output, it sounds much more open and better (but no signal is visible on the dB meter under utility and it usually tickles 0 dB by all presets)."

Could this hint that the lack of "openness" is caused by too much output compression? I'm not sure if lowering the Amp block output level affects the output compression algorithm, or if that compressor takes effect after the Master Volume output but before the Amp Block output level.
 
"For example, if I lower the amp block master output, it sounds much more open and better (but no signal is visible on the dB meter under utility and it usually tickles 0 dB by all presets)."

Could this hint that the lack of "openness" is caused by too much output compression? I'm not sure if lowering the Amp block output level affects the output compression algorithm, or if that compressor takes effect after the Master Volume output but before the Amp Block output level.

I know what you mean but I'm pretty sure it's more likely gain staging cause it affects everything and not just certain presets. Thanks.
 
Lowering the master will decrease the distortion in the poweramp, thus changing the sound. Lower the master until it sounds good and then raise the level to compensate.
 
Lowering the master will decrease the distortion in the poweramp, thus changing the sound. Lower the master until it sounds good and then raise the level to compensate.

Thanks but have no problem with pesets, I know how and where to set the MV or where the sweet spot is and how to compensate. I'm recording and I play in my cellar for years, all levels are good there. It's only when I'm playing through CLR at the rehearsal level and now I'm convinced that I have to lower the Axe output level (hint from Bakerman) a lot because I was going with maybe 50% of output amount into CLR and that's quite a lot preamplification before CLR.
 
Most of the time I go direct from Output 1 to the FOH mixer and just use a monitor mix to the wedge(s).

But when I have to use my own powered wedge connected to Output 2, I start by setting the Fractal Output 2 knob to maximum, Slowly raise the level on the powered monitor to the loudest I will likely need, then back off the Output 2 knob to what I actually need.

This sets a safe usable range of volume that protects the powered speaker and my ears from accidentally turning up too loud.
 
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