Help Playing through Studio Monitors

zerolight

Inspired
So for years I've used my Fractal devices through headphones - mostly DT880 Pros. Recently I decided to buy a pair of monitors - Adam T5v's.

Now they sound great when I play play my music library through them. They sound OK when I listen to a recorded track through them - maybe some tweaks to my preset would improve that.

My problem is actually playing through them. It sounds wrong. It's almost like there's a metallic reverb or phase issue. I think it's likely to be hearing the acoustic sound of my strings over the top of the monitors. Of course I can turn up the volume, but by the time it's loud enough, it's kinda too loud to be useful at home.

Am I missing something. How do you guys deal with this? I never had this issue with a real amp in the past.
 
Yeah, thanks Matt. It sounds OK played back but not whilst playing. Driving me nuts. Feel like I wasted money on monitors. Maybe I can train myself not to hear the guitar strings.
 
Yeah, thanks Matt. It sounds OK played back but not whilst playing. Driving me nuts. Feel like I wasted money on monitors. Maybe I can train myself not to hear the guitar strings.
I know those are dumb checks... but sometimes it's a small detail:
  • are you running in a DAW? if yes:
    • are you also monitoring while direct monitoring? (this can explain the reverb/phase)
    • do you have open mics somewhere? (string sound)
  • if no:
    • do you have acoustics problems in your room? (string sound + reverb + phase)
    • do you have headphones still connected at a high volume? (reverb + phase)
Other random problems:
  • do you have the same position in the room (position between your head and your studio monitors) while listening and playing? (studio monitors have a sweet spot, outside of that you can face awful sounds)
  • are you connecting directly to a sound card that introduces noise / plugins / routing / etc...?
 
you need to turn the volume up in the room so you don't hear the guitar strings. and yes, over time you'll get used to it. but if you can hear the guitar strings louder than the monitors, then you're hearing 2 different sources of the same thing at the same time which will sound different than just hearing one source (the monitors).

how loud is "too loud at home" that you mention in the first post?
 
There is a happy medium, just got to find it ,it kind of like when I record with my iPhone ,if I stand i from the the phone my strings are almost as loud as the amp recording . That drives me 🥜.
 
you need to turn the volume up in the room so you don't hear the guitar strings. and yes, over time you'll get used to it. but if you can hear the guitar strings louder than the monitors, then you're hearing 2 different sources of the same thing at the same time which will sound different than just hearing one source (the monitors).

how loud is "too loud at home" that you mention in the first post?
Hi Chris

It's not amp in the room loud. But it's loud enough to be louder than I'd normally listen to music, loud enough to annoy my wife, loud enough for Fletcher M to poke his nose in. Quieter than that and I can hear my strings. (It's a strat, so kinda loud. I'll be able to dig my PRS out in a few months, maybe it'll be different). I'm pretty certain it's the two sources thing.

To answer @Ninheresy I turn the headphone volume down to zero when using monitors. I'm plugged into a Focusrite Scarlett 8i6 with the monitors into that. I think I'm in the sweet spot for the monitors - same distance from them as they are apart, but I'll double check. They are angled at 30 degrees inwards, and more or less head height.

There's almost certainly an acoustic problem with the room, but not one that impacts my enjoyment of Appetite for Destruction or Sob Rock if I'm listening to Apple music.

Problem is there whether recording in a DAW or not. I don't really plan to record, just wanted to free myself of headphones. Super tempted to buy an amp again. Headphones when wife home. Amp when she's out.
 
Hi Chris

It's not amp in the room loud. But it's loud enough to be louder than I'd normally listen to music, loud enough to annoy my wife, loud enough for Fletcher M to poke his nose in. Quieter than that and I can hear my strings. (It's a strat, so kinda loud. I'll be able to dig my PRS out in a few months, maybe it'll be different). I'm pretty certain it's the two sources thing.

To answer @Ninheresy I turn the headphone volume down to zero when using monitors. I'm plugged into a Focusrite Scarlett 8i6 with the monitors into that. I think I'm in the sweet spot for the monitors - same distance from them as they are apart, but I'll double check. They are angled at 30 degrees inwards, and more or less head height.

There's almost certainly an acoustic problem with the room, but not one that impacts my enjoyment of Appetite for Destruction or Sob Rock if I'm listening to Apple music.

Problem is there whether recording in a DAW or not. I don't really plan to record, just wanted to free myself of headphones. Super tempted to buy an amp again. Headphones when wife home. Amp when she's out.
Like Chris said, you would have the same issue with an amp. Why not use what you have loud when the wife is gone, headphones when she is there?
 
It takes a good amount of volume to drown out the acoustic sound of the strings. But I find that I can get a satisfying sound with my monitors at much lower levels. Not whisper-quiet, but quiet enough to keep piece with the family.
 
how would the amp solve the issue? if you can't turn up loud to cover the strings, it'd be the same thing i think.
I've never had this issue with an amp. I guess an amp in the room sound is strong enough and present enough that even at lower volumes the sound of the strings just doesn't impact the sound of the amp.

But my point was that if I can only use Studio Monitors at such a volume where they only make sense when nobody is home, then I'd rather have an amp for that situation. Amp in the room when nobody home is more fun. Now if I can get Studio monitors to sound great at any volume, then they make sense and problem solved. Any time I try though, I hate the sound. I tried them once years ago with the Axe II and didn't like it, and that was in a totally different room.
 
I've never had this issue with an amp. I guess an amp in the room sound is strong enough and present enough that even at lower volumes the sound of the strings just doesn't impact the sound of the amp.

But my point was that if I can only use Studio Monitors at such a volume where they only make sense when nobody is home, then I'd rather have an amp for that situation. Amp in the room when nobody home is more fun. Now if I can get Studio monitors to sound great at any volume, then they make sense and problem solved. Any time I try though, I hate the sound. I tried them once years ago with the Axe II and didn't like it, and that was in a totally different room.
interesting. well i wonder if it's something else then. studio monitors at decent levels (not too loud) cover up the string sound for me and it sounds great. not sure why a real cab would mask it more than monitors. hope you get it figured out. studio monitors are great and really the standard for most "bedroom" guitar players these days.
 
@chris yeah - often read on forums or hear on YouTube how much people hate playing through headphones and I'm always baffled. I even use open back headphones with the volume loud enough to drown out strings and it's fine, but it's also fine when I can here the strings. There's none of the weird reverby metallic sound. But the monitors. 😩

It's 3am here so I've not been able to check @Ninheresy idea that maybe the sweets pot is off where I'm playing vs listening.
 
Some stereo paths will have some strange issues when collapsed to mono. Have you tried connecting the monitors directly to the FM3 outputs? Just to rule out any latency/phase issue with the Focusrite Scarlett 8i6.
 
I even use open back headphone... There's none of the weird reverby metallic sound. But the monitors. 😩
If you're getting weird reverby metallic sounds, then something isn't set up right. Share a recording so we can know what you're hearing.
 
Hi @zerolight
Have you analysed the positioning of your monitors, in relation to your head? Little monitors like that should be pretty close. Try setting them up so they are (say) 4 feet apart, a t the same height as your ears, and about 4 to 5 feet away from you.
Thanks
Pauly


So for years I've used my Fractal devices through headphones - mostly DT880 Pros. Recently I decided to buy a pair of monitors - Adam T5v's.

Now they sound great when I play play my music library through them. They sound OK when I listen to a recorded track through them - maybe some tweaks to my preset would improve that.

My problem is actually playing through them. It sounds wrong. It's almost like there's a metallic reverb or phase issue. I think it's likely to be hearing the acoustic sound of my strings over the top of the monitors. Of course I can turn up the volume, but by the time it's loud enough, it's kinda too loud to be useful at home.

Am I missing something. How do you guys deal with this? I never had this issue with a real amp in the past.
 
If you're getting weird reverby metallic sounds, then something isn't set up right. Share a recording so we can know what you're hearing.
Playback is fine. It’s the interplay between the strings and the monitors “live” that’s the issue. A recording won’t show any issue.
 
Hi @zerolight
Have you analysed the positioning of your monitors, in relation to your head? Little monitors like that should be pretty close. Try setting them up so they are (say) 4 feet apart, a t the same height as your ears, and about 4 to 5 feet away from you.
Thanks
Pauly
I can’t get them that far apart. They are about 3 and a half feet apart and I sit about that far away from them. The tweeters are at ear height. They are angled towards me. There is no issue on playback. Only whilst I play. It’s not a latency issue either.

The room is a little echoey. Not enough to impact playback, but I do wonder if the acoustic sound of the guitar is reflected back to me. As I say, if I record something or play a track from Apple Music or whatever, it’s fine. It’s also fine through headphones.
 
Hi again,
Well that sounds fine then - are you able to grab a mattress and stand it up against tha wall behind your speakers? That may help identify if reflections are an issue. (I know these techniques are from the gutter, but that’s where I belong ;-))
Thanks
Pauly

I can’t get them that far apart. They are about 3 and a half feet apart and I sit about that far away from them. The tweeters are at ear height. They are angled towards me. There is no issue on playback. Only whilst I play. It’s not a latency issue either.

The room is a little echoey. Not enough to impact playback, but I do wonder if the acoustic sound of the guitar is reflected back to me. As I say, if I record something or play a track from Apple Music or whatever, it’s fine. It’s also fine through headphones.
 
Playback is fine. It’s the interplay between the strings and the monitors “live” that’s the issue. A recording won’t show any issue.
A recording will show the issue if you capture it with your phone.
 
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