Help on Tone Match or IR?

K

krcassid

Inspired
Sorry if this is a bit of a "newbie" question. But, I've checked the Wiki and other posts and am still a little confused. I have been using the Axe since early Ultra days and I LOVE it! I had a lot of issues early on with the "cab in the room" missing and, about 10 years ago, found the perfect solution (for me). I run my Axe III out (no cab) to a Matrix GT 1000FX and into stereo 2 X 12s with EVM 12Ls in each. It's KILLER and I love my tone in the room now. However, when recording, I use an EVM IR in a cab (to another output to the board) and it is just nowhere near as good a what I am hearing in the room. I need to capture the sound of MY 2 X 12s w/ EVMs in MY cabs in MY room in my recordings. Now, I could just mic the cabs each time but this is a laborious process and difficult to get great results every time. I am guessing I need to do a Tone Match or IR. So, the question is, what method? I've read the wiki on TM and IR and realize I can do a TM and change it into an IR to insert as a cab. But, I'm not sure if this is the way or if I just need to do a TM or just an IR... It's also not just the close miced sound I love. I love the sound right in front of my face too! So, I may need multiple mics (near and far field).

Knowing what I am trying to accomplish (I want to hear the same sound in my recordings that I am hearing in the room), can someone set me straight on the best way to do this? I've never worked with Cab Lab or custom IRs and feel a little overwhelmed by the process of "mixing IRs" but am willing to go there if that is what is required. Can you guys give me some guidance? Is there an easier way that does not require mixing custom IRs? I could start with just close mic/ mics and see how that works B4 trying to mix in far field. I'm just a little confused because we have so many great tools with the Axe!

Grateful for any help here.
 
ToneRanger said:
Have you seen any of Ola’s Amp In The Room videos?
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I had not. I just looked at a couple and he seems to be demonstrating micing tecniques. He's not using the Axe, right? I'm good with micing cabs and my amp sounds perfect to me in the room. I'm just not quite sure the best way to capture that in an IR or Tone match. I did a simple IR this AM with close mic but I don't think it really sounded very good and I had a lot of trouble saving the IR from the front panel (had to use Axe Edit). I guess what I'm asking is not how to mic an amp but what is the best procedure given my setup. There are multiple different ways in the wiki and I was just wondering if there was a consensus as to the "best" way to actually duplicate the sound in the room. Seems like tone match is more about amp tones and that shooting an IR would be best.

Also trying to figure out HOW to use multiple mics. Using the IR function with one close mic into input 2 of the Axe III didn't sound great. I could run them all into Pro Tools and send the mixed signals to Input 2.

I guess my question is about best methodology.
 
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Room mic = room sound. I'd try to make some far field IRs of your cab and mix those in the cab block. Keep in mind that UltraRes IRs are limited to 8000 samples or about 167 ms in length, so if you have a larger or more acoustically live recording space, you might not be able to capture the full length of the room decay.

The other option is adding room sound artificially via reverb.
 
mr_fender said:
Room mic = room sound. I'd try to make some far field IRs of your cab and mix those in the cab block. Keep in mind that UltraRes IRs are limited to 8000 samples or about 167 ms in length, so if you have a larger or more acoustically live recording space, you might not be able to capture the full length of the room decay.

The other option is adding room sound artificially via reverb.
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Thx! I'll give it a try!
 
I just watched a couple of Ola's videos. After seeing what he is doing, it is clear that sticking an SM57 off center to the cone is not going to cut it. I've got a lot of nice mics and can do what Ola is doing. But, how to turn this into an IR??? I think all of this is what Cab Lab is for but I don't think Cab Lab will work with my DAW which is all locked up with Pro Tools hardware so I'd likely not be able to get I/O access for Standalone Cab Lab. The plugin has no AAX version. So, how to mix these? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I could use The Axe FX to shoot one Mic IR at a time and then load all 4 IRs into the 4 slots in the cab block and mix them there? Is that what Mr Fender is suggesting? I only have to do this right once because I use the same cab setup for all my tones. The EVM 12Ls are full range enough to work well for most amps so I don't change cabs, I just adjust the amps & EFX accordingly. Really, I solved the cab in the room dilemma years ago with the Matrix/ EVMs. But, I must admit, I stole this idea from Yek years ago;)
 
krcassid said:
I just watched a couple of Ola's videos. After seeing what he is doing, it is clear that sticking an SM57 off center to the cone is not going to cut it. I've got a lot of nice mics and can do what Ola is doing. But, how to turn this into an IR??? I think all of this is what Cab Lab is for but I don't think Cab Lab will work with my DAW which is all locked up with Pro Tools hardware so I'd likely not be able to get I/O access for Standalone Cab Lab. The plugin has no AAX version. So, how to mix these? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I could use The Axe FX to shoot one Mic IR at a time and then load all 4 IRs into the 4 slots in the cab block and mix them there? Is that what Mr Fender is suggesting? I only have to do this right once because I use the same cab setup for all my tones. The EVM 12Ls are full range enough to work well for most amps so I don't change cabs, I just adjust the amps & EFX accordingly. Really, I solved the cab in the room dilemma years ago with the Matrix/ EVMs. But, I must admit, I stole this idea from Yek years ago;)
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If you had a mixer you could pull that off. Even then, it wouldn’t sound or feel exactly like being in the room with it.

When I play my 5150 3 combo, I get this really cool midrange snarl with it. Using the same settings with the Axe FX model with practically ANY EVH cab ir, its just not there. So I shot some irs of the combo and to my surprise it sounded just like the onboard impulses.
 
Saving your tone match to a user cab allows you to use that cab in any preset you want.
Leon (2112) has a couple of videos that show you how to do it...no need for cab lab.
 
krcassid said:
I just watched a couple of Ola's videos. After seeing what he is doing, it is clear that sticking an SM57 off center to the cone is not going to cut it. I've got a lot of nice mics and can do what Ola is doing. But, how to turn this into an IR??? I think all of this is what Cab Lab is for but I don't think Cab Lab will work with my DAW which is all locked up with Pro Tools hardware so I'd likely not be able to get I/O access for Standalone Cab Lab. The plugin has no AAX version. So, how to mix these? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I could use The Axe FX to shoot one Mic IR at a time and then load all 4 IRs into the 4 slots in the cab block and mix them there? Is that what Mr Fender is suggesting? I only have to do this right once because I use the same cab setup for all my tones. The EVM 12Ls are full range enough to work well for most amps so I don't change cabs, I just adjust the amps & EFX accordingly. Really, I solved the cab in the room dilemma years ago with the Matrix/ EVMs. But, I must admit, I stole this idea from Yek years ago;)
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Tone Matching would be faster than capturing each mic as a separate IR; however, it won't give you the mix control you'd have by capturing each mic as an individual IR and adding them to separate slots in the Cab block. If I needed the flexibility, I'd opt for the latter.
 
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