Help me out, those who use the Axe into a regular guitar amp...

[Trazan]

You 4CM guys, or 2 cable guys for that matter.

My problem is the HISS. I've adjusted the Output 2 boost/pad to 12dB which is as far as I can go before the output level decreases. As I said, nothing else in the grid. My amps are plenty crisp (65 amps, Matchless HC30 and a JTM45) so they won't conceal any high freq noise. So, running these amps at the point of breakup, thinking I would use the Axe for stomp boxes....just waaay too noisy (hiss, not hum).

Any ideas? Did anyone compare to other stomp box emulation solutions? (Line 6, TC etc) I can live with hiss with drive stomps engaged, but not that continuous constant ssssshhhhhhh.... :|

While I'm at it, there's a loss of top end from the guitar signal when passing through the Axe. I've seen others mention it too, but I was hoping for operator errors. Might still be operator error of course! Absolutely nothing in the grid except the FX loop, input impedance checked, levels checked. What happens is a high freq loss...very apparent with crisp single coil pickups into a crisp amp. Sooo.....this is just the way it is, or...?

 

[Funeral]

Try some humbuster cables. I hear this is working wonders.

 

[paulmapp8306]

Just going to say - humbuster tech.

 

[Vhalen50]

Ive never noticed any obnoxious amount of hiss. Ill be honest and I plug my axe 2 into my 5150's effects loop. Maybe I'm just used to the hiss a 5150 gives off (what a great sounding hiss) and I haven't noticed. I think at first i noticed that the top end was a little low but a 2x12 cabinet at my feet will always sound baser than it is to me 6 feet above it. I also use stomp boxes going into it routed through a GCX, a satchurator and a zakk wylde phase 90 (cause my real phase 90 broke) and i don't notice a huge difference except the phase 90 doesn't seem to really do what i remember it doing in my old setup.

 

[Trazan]

I'm thinking it might just be the nature of the beast... Reading other manufacturers forums I see similar complaints. Hum is not the problem, it's hisssssss. My Timefactor is also too hissy for my liking, so I'm only using it in the loop. The Axe is fine in the loop, no prob, but in front there's more hiss than I need...

I'll check to see if maybe adding a preamp before the Axe and going into input 1 on the back might help.

 

[JIMMY G]

I notice that my lower strings jump out of the guitar but higher strings, upper frets seem weak. I'm new not sure how to fix it ( Humbuckers )

 

[tlainhart]

I had the same problem when I moved from my Ultra to my FXII. I bought this:

Ebtech HE-2 | Sweetwater.com

...and the problem went away. I didn't try humbuster cables.

 

[Trazan]

I had the same problem when I moved from my Ultra to my FXII. I bought this:

Ebtech HE-2 | Sweetwater.com

...and the problem went away. I didn't try humbuster cables.

I don't have a hum problem. No hum whatsoever here (using TRS-TS cables). Only hiss, and the fact that I'm using low output pickups obviously makes things worse.

I CAN get the hiss down to just about nothing if I add a preamp in front and gain the guitar to as much as the Axe can take, and then lower the gain on the amp to compensate. However, it does sound different...and on my rig the guitar became a bit too edgy that way.

I mentioned that there was som hi freq loss going through the Axe into the front of an amp. I just tried the rear input 1 and it seems it actually didn't happen there...sounded fine to me, something I didn't expect as I though these were low Z line inputs.

 

[tlainhart]

I don't have a hum problem. No hum whatsoever here (using TRS-TS cables). Only hiss, and the fact that I'm using low output pickups obviously makes things worse.

Just to be clear, my problem was not 60 cycle hum. It was hiss, in an environment similar to what you are describing. I think it existed even without my guitar plugged into Input 1, but I'm not recalling precisely. There was no obvious ground loop. Fractal support wasn't sure that humbuster cables would fix the problem, and suggested a technology like Ebtech's, and that fixed my problem.

 

[Trazan]

Just to be clear, my problem was not 60 cycle hum. It was hiss, in an environment similar to what you are describing. I think it existed even without my guitar plugged into Input 1, but I'm not recalling precisely. There was no obvious ground loop. Fractal support wasn't sure that humbuster cables would fix the problem, and suggested a technology like Ebtech's, and that fixed my problem.

Sure it wasn't "buzz"? I don't really understand how it could remove regular hiss.


I've checked and compared with a Timefactor pedal here. I was disappointed in the hiss I got from the Timefactor when I bought it (for a very noiseless rig, playing in silent environments...meaning no rock'n roll and drunk people ) but the Axe has TONS more hiss. I can get the hiss down to the same as the Timefactor (boost/pad at 12dB) but then there's absolutely no headroom left in the Axe (output 2 clips). The Timefactor still has 20dB headroom at this point. Ugh....dunno what tp do about this...

 

[Trazan]

Recording coming up, comparing it to an Eventide Timefactor and straight guitar>amp. The hiss has absolutely no relation to input gain, front or rear. The chains are as follows:

Part 1 - guitar > 65 Amps
Part 2 - guitar > Timefactor > 65 Amps
Part 3 - guitar > Axe-Fx 2 > 65 Amps
Part 4 - guitar > Axe-Fx 2 with 12 dB boost/pad > 65 Amps

See above for some more description.

Any 4CM guys here? What's your experience?



And BTW, the hiss is completely unrelated to input level calibration. I can unplug the guitar, and turn the input trim to minimum, and the hiss is the same. Input on minimum of full, makes no hiss difference...so I don't quite understand the design here...

 

[Trazan]

Uhm, nobody using this thing 4CM? I'm kinda shocked at the noise floor here, and that all of this noise is at the output (2) regardless of input trim...

 

[Trazan]

More info: I don't have to send anything to output 2, all the hiss comes from the output stage. It only applies to Output 2 (fx send). This hiss is not present when using Output 1.....but then I'd have trouble running that 4CM

 

[Trazan]

So, could any of you sweet guys please try this?:

With absolutely nothing in the grid, no global nothing, no eq, no level adjustments, and no boost/pad in the I/O menu (leave them at 0dB). Don't even have to connect a guitar.

Then connect Output 1 L to the front of a guitar amp - a clear and crisp one that will not mask any hiss. Turn it up so that you can hear the hiss fine. Then switch to Output 2 L on the Axe. Do you have WAY more hiss coming from the Axe?

Just trying to find out if this is just the design or a faulty unit. It is completely unusable as a 4CM unit as is....

 

[Thomas Larsson]

Well , I'm not shure , but maybe the noisegate is connected
at output 1. Then it won't be active on output 2. That could explain why
Some like the four cable method.

So, could any of you sweet guys please try this?:

With absolutely nothing in the grid, no global nothing, no eq, no level adjustments, and no boost/pad in the I/O menu (leave them at 0dB). Don't even have to connect a guitar.

Then connect Output 1 L to the front of a guitar amp - a clear and crisp one that will not mask any hiss. Turn it up so that you can hear the hiss fine. Then switch to Output 2 L on the Axe. Do you have WAY more hiss coming from the Axe?

Just trying to find out if this is just the design or a faulty unit. It is completely unusable as a 4CM unit as is....

 

[Thomas Larsson]

Yeah ! I know I would never dream of connecting anything digital
In front of a upgained tubeamp. But some do. That's a very sensetive
place to connect heavy processed stuff. Even if the axe is a great peace
of gear it's still a computor with a/d and d/a converters. It can't be as quiet as
a shielded cable I guess. But I think the pad should
make it better. I must try it on my own amps.

I'm thinking it might just be the nature of the beast... Reading other manufacturers forums I see similar complaints. Hum is not the problem, it's hisssssss. My Timefactor is also too hissy for my liking, so I'm only using it in the loop. The Axe is fine in the loop, no prob, but in front there's more hiss than I need...

I'll check to see if maybe adding a preamp before the Axe and going into input 1 on the back might help.

 

[Trazan]

I must try it on my own amps.

Hi Thomas, could you maybe try this?:

Use the preset 383 BYPASS, no guitar plugged in, no boost/pad in I/O menu, no global alterations, both output levels full.
Use one cable from the Axe to amp (first from Output 1, then move it to Output 2). Turn the amp up till you hear hiss - is the hiss level the same on output 1 and 2?

I don't have a problem connecting digital in front of a (somewhat) gained tube amp, as Output 1 on the Axe is fine. The problem is only Output 2. According to the manual the analog outputs all have the same specs. This is NOT the case on my unit, as Output 2 (which is the output you have to use into the amp front with 4CM) is noisier than anything I own. Probably an extra 15-20 dB of hiss compared to Output 1.

 

[Thomas Larsson]

I will try

I will try to remember this . pg 383 with bypass and compare out 1 and 2 hiss levels .

Thomas

Hi Thomas, could you maybe try this?:

Use the preset 383 BYPASS, no guitar plugged in, no boost/pad in I/O menu, no global alterations, both output levels full.
Use one cable from the Axe to amp (first from Output 1, then move it to Output 2). Turn the amp up till you hear hiss - is the hiss level the same on output 1 and 2?

I don't have a problem connecting digital in front of a (somewhat) gained tube amp, as Output 1 on the Axe is fine. The problem is only Output 2. According to the manual the analog outputs all have the same specs. This is NOT the case on my unit, as Output 2 (which is the output you have to use into the amp front with 4CM) is noisier than anything I own. Probably an extra 15-20 dB of hiss compared to Output 1.

 

[Thomas Larsson]

Hi ! I just tried your comparison. You are right. There is more
noise on output 2. I think the noisegate is helping out 1. But i'm
not shure. Anyhow , i messured the cliplevels on both outputs
and they behave the same. At 18 dB pad they clip at 0,5v (peak).
With the pads at 0dB they both clip at around 8v (peak).But I don't
think the noise was that bad at all. I tried with a lonestar on both channels.
One thing is for sure. You should use as much pad as possible (before clip). That
keeps the noise at low level.

Hi Thomas, could you maybe try this?:

Use the preset 383 BYPASS, no guitar plugged in, no boost/pad in I/O menu, no global alterations, both output levels full.
Use one cable from the Axe to amp (first from Output 1, then move it to Output 2). Turn the amp up till you hear hiss - is the hiss level the same on output 1 and 2?

I don't have a problem connecting digital in front of a (somewhat) gained tube amp, as Output 1 on the Axe is fine. The problem is only Output 2. According to the manual the analog outputs all have the same specs. This is NOT the case on my unit, as Output 2 (which is the output you have to use into the amp front with 4CM) is noisier than anything I own. Probably an extra 15-20 dB of hiss compared to Output 1.

 

[Trazan]

The manual states that analog outputs are 600 Ohm, max +20 dBu and with a dynamic range of >110 dB. Doesn't say there's any difference between 1 or 2... If you compare part 2 and 3 in the clip I posted...is this about the difference between Out 1 and 2 on your unit?

Yeah, I know about the pad. However, if I pad 12 dB there's no headroom left...while it's still more noisy than my Timefactor (which has 20 dB headroom at this point). Just doesn't seem right.