Help me do a quality AxefxII experiment...

guittarzzan

guittarzzan

Inspired
I have an AxefxII on the way and want to do an experiment I meant to do a long time ago. I want to post a series of clips; some recorded with AxefxII direct, some with AxefxII into a tube power amp with mics etc and some with my Egnater M4 using various modules feeding a tube power amp into mics and pres etc.
The experiment is meant to be fun, but I want it to at least be respectable as far as getting levels real close. Other than just watching the meters in Pro Tools, I don't know how to make sure levels are matched from clip to clip. Can someone give me a tip on doing this correctly? I really DON'T want to do any digital processing to match levels unless it can be done extremely transparently.
The objective won't be to try and get the Axefx to sound like my Egnater M4, but rather to have people try and guess which clips are AxefxII direct, which are AxefxII/tube power amp hybrid, and which are pure tube amp path. I may even have a few clips running the Egnater direct out into the Axefx using the cab sims too.
If done respectably, I think this little experiment might really open some eyes and ears as to how far digital modelling has come.
Anyone have any tips on matching levels?

thanks,
Steve
 
guittarzzan said:
I have an AxefxII on the way and want to do an experiment...I think this little experiment might really open some eyes and ears as to how far digital modelling has come.
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You've already biased your experiment by drawing a conclusion before even receiving the Axe Fx II.

Nonetheless, if you want to do sound samples, why not use an amp splitter and send the signal simultaneously into the Axe Fx II and Egnater, match levels by eye and bring back into A/D?

If you don't use a splitter, I think even a slight difference in performance, when re-patching the Axe-Fx will bias any conclusions.

Good luck!
 
...Or Re-Amp through all the setups... use Bob Katz Meter (B-14) to match all the levels in the post using faders.
 
cinealta said:
You've already biased your experiment by drawing a conclusion before even receiving the Axe Fx II.
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Haha...."I think this little experiment might..." doesn't sound very conclusive to me.

Biggest thing that comes to mind when hearing about this experiment is that it will only prove anything if you substantiate the fact that you know how to record a tube amp well, which hopefully you do. A Boss GT-6 can sound 10x better than a Fender Princeton if the tube amp is recorded wrong. Maybe a bit of a stretch....
 
ryanstewartguitar said:
Haha...."I think this little experiment might..." doesn't sound very conclusive to me.

Biggest thing that comes to mind when hearing about this experiment is that it will only prove anything if you substantiate the fact that you know how to record a tube amp well, which hopefully you do. A Boss GT-6 can sound 10x better than a Fender Princeton if the tube amp is recorded wrong. Maybe a bit of a stretch....
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I'm not trying present a scientific experiment to submit to a peer-reviewed physics journal here. Just going to do a little experiment FOR FUN and curiosity. Do you really think I would post a clip of any amp signal chain that sounded like crap? I will, of course, try to get the best tone from each clip possible.
The signal chain for everything going to power amp, mic and mic pre will be a Mesa 2x12 with V30's to sm57 or AEA R84 or SM7b or Lawson L47 to Chandler TG2 to Pro Tools. I really don't think the amplified clips are going to suffer from that signal chain. :)
Thanks for the tip on the B Katz meter. Will check it out.

It should be interesting to see people's opinions of what's what. Those who are just interested in talking about how unscientific it is etc, don't need to participate because again, it will mainly be JUST FOR FUN. :)

cheers,
Steve
 
guittarzzan said:
Those who are just interested in talking about how unscientific it is etc, don't need to participate because again, it will mainly be JUST FOR FUN.
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Ok, but your thread title says "quality Axe Fx II experiment," not sound samples for fun. So you can understand why good intended people, who have done this at a critical level (AES etc), could have been innocently confused about what you were trying to accomplish and were just trying to be helpful.

guittarzzan said:
The signal chain for everything going to power amp, mic and mic pre will be a Mesa 2x12 with V30's to sm57 or AEA R84 or SM7b or Lawson L47 to Chandler TG2 to Pro Tools. I really don't think the amplified clips are going to suffer from that signal chain.
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As Ryan poignantly points out (below), all the gear in the world is useless unless you know the correct technique for properly mic'ing a tube amp. This is the fatal flaw of all the modeler vs tube amp shootouts.

ryanstewartguitar said:
Biggest thing that comes to mind when hearing about this experiment is that it will only prove anything if you substantiate the fact that you know how to record a tube amp well....
Click to expand...
 
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cinealta said:
As Ryan poignantly points out (below), all the gear in the world is useless unless you know the correct technique for properly mic'ing a tube amp. This is the fatal flaw of all the modeler vs tube amp shootouts.
Click to expand...

Other than getting the gain staging right and hitting the converters moderately, the only "correct mic technique" out there, when using a single mic, is to move the mic around until you get the sound you're after and/or it accurately represents what you're hearing in the room. With one mic, the "correct technique" is trust your ears and move the mic until the monitors are rockin'. This has worked for countless platinum album engineers so I guess that technique will be good enough for me too. It's the same technique I've always used. Sound is so subjective so while I may love the sound of the mic position I choose, you may think it sucks.
If you read my original post, I was asking about the best way to match levels of the clips. If you don't like my imperfect and unscientific experiment when it's done, that's cool. I'll look forward to checking out yours and learning the perfect mic technique. :) I can't stand some of the guitar tones Randy Rhoads had and would have probably used different mics, mic placement and eq settings, but does that mean they were incorrect? Nope, it's just the sound they were after in the studio and had a different set of ears controlling the set up. When I post my "experiment", if you think I used improper mic technique on my Egnater, please enlighten me as to what I did wrong. That would be very interesting coming from someone who wasn't even in the room when the record button was hit. :)

cheers,
Steve
 
If you really want to even the playing field, get an impulse response of your cab/mic at the start, and use that in the AFx patches. That'll negate cinealta and ryanstewartguitar's concerns about your mic technique.
 
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