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Help dialing in Classic PAF / Les Paul tone

Hi everyone, I have a great Les Paul with great PAF clones. I need help dialing in that classic PAF nasally/honky tone. I have tried the Jumped Plexi and Friedman's in Fractal. But tone is needing something more as Fractal has so many other options that Marshalls did not have.
Below is an example of what I am hoping for. THANKS !

 

simeon

Axe-Master
don't worry about the advanced options.

the plexi 1970 into the basketweave tv cab is a good place to start. pull back the bass, up the mid and treble. pres to taste. gain on about 6.

alternatively, try the wrecker express

if you prefer something a bit tighter and smoother, put the ts808 in front of the amp with the gain very low and the level at about 6 or 7. you might want to drop the amp gain a touch to maintain a good dynamic response

see how you get on. we're all pretty familiar with the above suggestions, so it'll give us a good reference point if it's still not working for you

the audio in the video clip is very poor, btw. i wouldn't use it as a reference.
 

simeon

Axe-Master
it would also help if you could point us towards some studio recordings of your holy grail paf tone. there are lots of different flavours - ac/dc, thin lizzy, paul kossoff, gary moore...etc etc...
 
it would also help if you could point us towards some studio recordings of your holy grail paf tone. there are lots of different flavours - ac/dc, thin lizzy, paul kossoff, gary moore...etc etc...

Thanks for asking...HOLY Grail tone has to be ZZ Top Brown Sugar ..but AC DC gets a bit of it as do Paul Kossoff and the Beano tone of Eric Clapton. They all have that sqwank, nasal warmth just aren't any presets that deal with this. My dial ins are getting too much or too little I think.
 

simeon

Axe-Master
ok, so i tried the deluxe tweed. gain on 10, treble on 10 with the treble boost pedal in front (all settings default). i ran that into factory cabs 20 and 21 and stuck the medium room reverb on it at 40% mix. try that and see if it's in the ballpark
 

simeon

Axe-Master
and here's another recipe. someone said on the web, he quite likes low wattage marshalls, so i tried the blankenship leeds with gain on 8, bass on 5, mid and treb on 10, pres on 5 into the basketweave tv mix (103). sounds pretty badass as well. no drive needed in front, btw.



edit: this one sounds amazing to me!
 
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simeon

Axe-Master
and one more

wrecker liverpool

gain on 8, bass on zero, mid on 10, treb on 8

into the basketweave tv mix

very explosive this one, but might not have quite the mids you're looking for


have a go at these and we might be able to zone in a bit better
 

simeon

Axe-Master
and for the ones that use the basketweave tv mix, try that with the larry mitchell plexi cab in a stereo cab block. i've attached it here for you
 

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ok, so i tried the deluxe tweed. gain on 10, treble on 10 with the treble boost pedal in front (all settings default). i ran that into factory cabs 20 and 21 and stuck the medium room reverb on it at 40% mix. try that and see if it's in the ballpark
I will try that THANK YOU
 
and for the ones that use the basketweave tv mix, try that with the larry mitchell plexi cab in a stereo cab block. i've attached it here for you
Hey Simeon, Thanks so much for your help , it helps having an experienced ear , rather than me just being a MAD scientist !! haha ..Ok so far my favorite, is the Blankenship that you put together , That has such a subtle warmth but its strong PAF sound...I also like one I did , tell me what you think of this ; FRIEDMAN HBE V1 amp Gain 0, Bass 3, Mid 9, Treb 8 , Presence 7..Input trim 8.5, Master input 3.3 then I turned the Variac all the way down, so all that gives it some gain feeling.. CAB is F060 and 61. Going to try your Larry Carlton in just a bit also
 

simeon

Axe-Master
FRIEDMAN HBE V1 amp Gain 0, Bass 3, Mid 9, Treb 8 , Presence 7..Input trim 8.5, Master input 3.3 then I turned the Variac all the way down, so all that gives it some gain feeling.. CAB is F060 and 61.
ok, so i tried this and hated it. harsh and brittle sounding. sorry dude. to get anywhere in the ballpark, i turned input trim back to default, put the gain on 3 and brought the pres down to 3.5 and mid and treble down to 7.5. i brought the bass up to 3. even then it's still a bit stiff. the friedman is a modern modded marshall. it certainly wouldn't be my go to for classic blues tones.
 
ok, so i tried this and hated it. harsh and brittle sounding. sorry dude. to get anywhere in the ballpark, i turned input trim back to default, put the gain on 3 and brought the pres down to 3.5 and mid and treble down to 7.5. i brought the bass up to 3. even then it's still a bit stiff. the friedman is a modern modded marshall. it certainly wouldn't be my go to for classic blues tones.
My wife hated it too , so you are right No on the Friedman....so went back to your idea of the Basketweave Tv cab , and read it is THE favorite cab of many many Fractal users ..so I pared it with the jumped plexi , ..the guy that made my PAF clones says the Jumped Plexi IS the sound that made the PAF tone come alive.....seems to get a bit of both worlds . Here is the preset PLEASE make changes as you see fit, you apparently have the best ear in this . THANK you so much. I have been turning the input trim up and the variac down to get more PUSH , like you hear in a real amp, my computer speakers, make it a bit pedestrian otherwise.. love to hear your thought on that
 

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simeon

Axe-Master
hmm. you seem to be doing a lot of things that are working in opposition to each other, like increasing input trim and master volume trim, turning the boost switch on and at the same time running gain at zero and turning the bright switch off. remember that the amps in the axe are models of real amps and behave exactly like real amps. nowhere in any universe would i run a jumped plexi with both gains at zero and then slam the input!

your patch had way too much gain and had lost a lot of the characteristics that make plexis so loved. no thump or swirl...gritty, rather than sizzly and frankly a bit weird.

i turned off the boost, reset input trim and master volume trim, put the gains and tone pots at a sensible level and turned bright back on. i replaced the drive with the 808 with more sensible settings and bypassed the eq. i also turned the variac back to default.

the amp is now "speaking" better, sounds good on the neck pickup as well as the bridge and will respond to playing dynamics!

so many extremes in your patch (most of them working against each other), i would say try not to do anything you're habitually doing and leave the advanced parameters alone. stay simple. the tones are in there and they're available from the basic controls. you wouldn't buy an amp and then immediately take the lid off and start messing around with the components...!

edit: oh and spring reverb at the end was just wrong, dude! :)
 

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hmm. you seem to be doing a lot of things that are working in opposition to each other, like increasing input trim and master volume trim, turning the boost switch on and at the same time running gain at zero and turning the bright switch off. remember that the amps in the axe are models of real amps and behave exactly like real amps. nowhere in any universe would i run a jumped plexi with both gains at zero and then slam the input!

your patch had way too much gain and had lost a lot of the characteristics that make plexis so loved. no thump or swirl...gritty, rather than sizzly and frankly a bit weird.

i turned off the boost, reset input trim and master volume trim, put the gains and tone pots at a sensible level and turned bright back on. i replaced the drive with the 808 with more sensible settings and bypassed the eq. i also turned the variac back to default.

the amp is now "speaking" better, sounds good on the neck pickup as well as the bridge and will respond to playing dynamics!

so many extremes in your patch (most of them working against each other), i would say try not to do anything you're habitually doing and leave the advanced parameters alone. stay simple. the tones are in there and they're available from the basic controls. you wouldn't buy an amp and then immediately take the lid off and start messing around with the components...!

Thanks Simeon, Well this is why I am asking, I do notice many of the tones I make, I listen again a month later and can hear the TOO MUCH GAIN and haven't been able to find my way out ....funny this is kind of like when you smell different perfumes and soon can't smell any them right haha ..... so thank you for the lesson. I will listen to this later today to hear what you are after and play it against the one I made.
 

simeon

Axe-Master
it's just experience, dude. knowing what sounds "good" and what doesn't (within a range of accepted norms) takes a while. you kinda have to train your ears and it certainly helps to have some real world experience with real world amps. if you like guitar music, then really listen to the tones and if you like something in particular, go on a google investigation...find out what amp and speakers were used and try and dial it in yourself. you might not get close, but you'll learn loads in the process.
 
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