Headrush 112 or Boss Katana Mk ll 50 watt

boz52

Experienced
Thinking of buying one of these for my FM3...those are around my budget at this time. Anyone have insights on these items?
 
The Katana isn’t FRFR, so you won’t really be able to use the IRs or amp modeling of the FM3. The Headrush will give you more freedom to experiment with different tones; I think it will probably be a better experience for you.
 
But it has power amp input that bypasses the Katana pre. I think a couple of guys on here used the Katana this way with good success.
The Headrush is a good deal though.
 
Yes, you can bypass the pre, but you still get the power amp modeling and cabinet of the Katana. If you are happy with that sound, then that is fine, but if you want to use a cabinet and/or power amp model from the FM3, then this would be a less than ideal setup because you can’t bypass those in the Katana.
 
But it has power amp input that bypasses the Katana pre. I think a couple of guys on here used the Katana this way with good success.
The Headrush is a good deal though.

I sold my katana once I got my FM3. It works fine with the power amp input, but that speaker definitely has "a sound" and I didn't love it. I was happier with using IRs with decent headphones.

So if I had to choose, I'd go with the frfr type solution so you can have more flexibility (imo obviously).
 
I wanted a 2nd setup for redundance or to keep my two 1x12 Thiele/Smalls PA cabs (coaxial Eminence Speakers) at rehearsal room 50km away
and got something at home beside the studio-monitors and headphones. And I also didn't wat to spend too much money for this.

Because of some posts in german forums I decided to buy the Harley Benton FRFR-112A out of a B-stock.
So I saved additional money ;)
Some users of the Headrush complained about too much highend frequencies.
You got a DSP with EQ inside the HB and additional speaker sims if needed and its loud enough.

I was suprised that the HB sound is very near to my 1x12" Cabs and I've only done little EQing on global Out2-EQ and it works fine for me.
 
I have the Katana Artist and the Headrush 108. Go with the Headrush FRFR man it’s amazing for the fm3. I don’t use my Katana anymore since I got the Headrush. It’s loud enough for band practice and I don’t even go past 12 o’clock on the master volume.
 
I know of someone on the forum here that plays thru two Katana's live. He has a great live 80"s tone from the tons of videos I've seen. He may chime in but more than likely not. One of those super secret guy's that doesn't care to share his secret sauce.

So many EQ's so little time.
 
I have a boss katana mkII 100 watt as well as an fm3. I've also used kemper and helix devices through the katana.

The boss amp seems to add a "katana mojo" to the tone, even coming in from power amp input, no matter what I've tried. Not necessarily a bad thing. But it eliminates some of the reason I'd use the katana to power fm3, helix, kemper -- which would involve a more accurate representation of these units.

Nothing is "perfectly neutral" (or.. I'm not even sure what that would mean, really) but there's still a difference between katana power amp and some others I've tried.

Add in the fact that IRs are a no-go (for most at least, using guitar speakers) and it can add up, considering how relatively similar most real amps and amp sims anyway are.

But I've still found reasons to use the boss with fm3. There's that particular amp sim (say vh4 silver) that sounds significantly different than what boss offers, even considering the added boss coloration.

Moreover, I get considerably more flexibility by using the fm3 into the boss.

All that said.. I would also say, at the end of the day, that the majority of the time, these days, If I'm using the boss, it's gonna be by itself. Some of the amp sims in it are great as they are.

Given the choice, I'd go for a more "neutral" power amp for the fm3, without the boss coloration. But boss units are also relatively cheap and offer quite a bit.

I'm generally not a big fan of FRFR.
 
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I have a Headrush frfr112 as well as a QSC CP12. The Headrush sounds good up until you get to gig levels and then I feel like it starts to fall apart a bit. If you can swing it the QSC stuff (and a few others) for a couple hundred more perform a lot better if you are going to gig. If not the Headrush sounds great at home and up to reasonable levels.
 
The Katana provides you a back up rig if your modeler goes down at a gig.
Just takes less than 1 minute, to switch it up, and your back up.
An FRFR solution would require you bring a back up modeler to the Fractal.
I started with a Gen.1 AXE, (many years ago) worked my way up to the AX8, and stopped there.
I have used RCF-SMA 12's (powered wedges), Seismic Audio 12" powered wedges..SOLD them all.
I had to use PEQ to tame all the un-realistic high end, basically, defeating the purpose of the FRFR.
I went back to a 212 cabinet a couple of years ago, with a SS power amp.
I just bought the Katana MK2 - 100w head, to replace the SS amp, and bring my old FCB-1010 in a gig bag to control the Katana if my AX8 goes south. The FCB1010 has 2 pedals, and 8 stomps that are programmable (Eureka chip), so I can access everything I need the Katana to do live.
The Katana "modelling" is NOT in the signal chain, (as a previous poster stated) when using the POWER AMP INPUT...BTW.
Some turn off AXE IR's, when using a guitar cabinet, I like the extra "tone shaping"and compression the IR's add to my 212 cabinet.
The IR's provide for a very quick way to shape my patches from a VOX to a 412 emulation, without having to spend a lot of time in AXE-EDIT getting the sound I want.
Really a great plug/play solution.
The Katana has MORE than enough GAIN on stage with another guitarist and acoustic drummer...VERY loud, and clean.
 
I have a Headrush frfr112 as well as a QSC CP12. The Headrush sounds good up until you get to gig levels and then I feel like it starts to fall apart a bit. If you can swing it the QSC stuff (and a few others) for a couple hundred more perform a lot better if you are going to gig. If not the Headrush sounds great at home and up to reasonable levels.

This is exactly my experience and, interestingly, I just did some A/B testing yesterday with my Headrush 108s and a borrowed Katana 50 (mkII) yesterday. Bottom line: I'm sticking with the Headrush, with the exception of specific high volume, no FOH set-ups (see below).

A bit of background/context. I love my FM3, and with the funk/jazz band I play with, we all go direct, play with in-ears and FOH (though we haven't properly gigged yet). All seems perfect there. I've been slowly tweaking parametric EQ and playing with IRs to get things right and am super happy.

However, I also routinely gig with an 80s-style metal band (Judas Priest, Ozzy, Maiden, originals). To date I have gigged exclusively with my Katana 100 2x12. That has worked like a champ and the Katana seems to cut through that mix very well (the other guitarist plays through a 5150 2x12, usually too loud) even at the 50w setting. We've played a few gigs with a decent FOH (where they have run both direct out and mic'd the Katana), but a lot of times we play parties/gigs without a PA (yeah, I know). And we tend to play VERY loud.

I have been dialing some super sweet Friedman tones with stereo delays and what not, hoping to use that with this metal band, so I bought a pair of 108s. At home I the 108s seemed like they'd be plenty loud, but at rehearsal they just got drowned out. I ended up clipping them both trying to get anywhere near decent volumes. It was pretty frustrating and I ultimately decided to just go back to the Katana.

I then started playing around with running the FM3 into the Katana and got some good results by not using a cab sim and using a parmetric EQ. Since I wanted a stereo rig, I looked into adding a Katana 50 for stereo effects (or maybe replacing the 100 with two 50s), but after goofing around with it yesterday, I'm punting on the idea.

The bottom line is that, while I liked the sound of the 2x12 with the FM3, the 50 just didn't sound good. Part of this may be that the speaker isn't broken in yet, but I think that little cab on the 50 just has its own sound. I spent a lot of time with various presets testing it out and I just couldn't dodge the "flavor" of the 50. I then went back to the 108s and it was just so much better sounding, especially when tweaking the EQ a bit more.

Anyway, the take away for me is that for getting quality of tone, the 108s are worlds better than either of the Katanas (since you can really leverage the IRs). But if you need a "amp only" set up at high volume, they probably aren't going to cut it. It's not that they don't give you that "amp in the room" feel, it's just that they don't seem to have the balls for high volume application. I'll just stick with the Katana for that. I do think that if I jammed/played with folks at a reasonable volume ,the 108s would be plenty loud/cutting.

As an aside, I played a bit with a kind of wet/dry set up with the Katana 100 and the 108s which ended up sounding really good. Basically, I run Out 2 into the Katana without cab/reverb/delay and run Out 1 through the 108s with cab/reverb/delay. I ended up getting some pretty monstrous sounds out of that and may test that in the rehearsal/gigging situation soon.
 
This is exactly my experience and, interestingly, I just did some A/B testing yesterday with my Headrush 108s and a borrowed Katana 50 (mkII) yesterday. Bottom line: I'm sticking with the Headrush, with the exception of specific high volume, no FOH set-ups (see below).

A bit of background/context. I love my FM3, and with the funk/jazz band I play with, we all go direct, play with in-ears and FOH (though we haven't properly gigged yet). All seems perfect there. I've been slowly tweaking parametric EQ and playing with IRs to get things right and am super happy.

However, I also routinely gig with an 80s-style metal band (Judas Priest, Ozzy, Maiden, originals). To date I have gigged exclusively with my Katana 100 2x12. That has worked like a champ and the Katana seems to cut through that mix very well (the other guitarist plays through a 5150 2x12, usually too loud) even at the 50w setting. We've played a few gigs with a decent FOH (where they have run both direct out and mic'd the Katana), but a lot of times we play parties/gigs without a PA (yeah, I know). And we tend to play VERY loud.

I have been dialing some super sweet Friedman tones with stereo delays and what not, hoping to use that with this metal band, so I bought a pair of 108s. At home I the 108s seemed like they'd be plenty loud, but at rehearsal they just got drowned out. I ended up clipping them both trying to get anywhere near decent volumes. It was pretty frustrating and I ultimately decided to just go back to the Katana.

I then started playing around with running the FM3 into the Katana and got some good results by not using a cab sim and using a parmetric EQ. Since I wanted a stereo rig, I looked into adding a Katana 50 for stereo effects (or maybe replacing the 100 with two 50s), but after goofing around with it yesterday, I'm punting on the idea.

The bottom line is that, while I liked the sound of the 2x12 with the FM3, the 50 just didn't sound good. Part of this may be that the speaker isn't broken in yet, but I think that little cab on the 50 just has its own sound. I spent a lot of time with various presets testing it out and I just couldn't dodge the "flavor" of the 50. I then went back to the 108s and it was just so much better sounding, especially when tweaking the EQ a bit more.

Anyway, the take away for me is that for getting quality of tone, the 108s are worlds better than either of the Katanas (since you can really leverage the IRs). But if you need a "amp only" set up at high volume, they probably aren't going to cut it. It's not that they don't give you that "amp in the room" feel, it's just that they don't seem to have the balls for high volume application. I'll just stick with the Katana for that. I do think that if I jammed/played with folks at a reasonable volume ,the 108s would be plenty loud/cutting.

As an aside, I played a bit with a kind of wet/dry set up with the Katana 100 and the 108s which ended up sounding really good. Basically, I run Out 2 into the Katana without cab/reverb/delay and run Out 1 through the 108s with cab/reverb/delay. I ended up getting some pretty monstrous sounds out of that and may test that in the rehearsal/gigging situation soon.
Good write up TJ! Yeh a lot of plus's and minus's either way you go. For time based effects, worship band's and IEM's...FRFR is a winner. I just have to bring a spare rig to 4 hour gigs, and the Boss does the trick for me, since I was more accustomed to the amp/cab combo. I just couldn't afford to buy another Fractal right now at the price point of the Bass Katana head. I already had the 212 Carvin cabinet, is why I just bought the Katana head. Good luck with your musical adventures!
 
So I take is that:
Headrush - use IR’s, backup rig, lower highs
Boss - no IR’, no backup rig needed and not true FRFR
The basic difference is that a FRFR allows you to use a modeler as it was designed, where the modeler controls the sound of the amp, power amp and cabinet and speakers.

When you switch to a guitar cabinet you should turn off cabinet modeling, so you lose that control and can inadvertently color the sound coming from the modeler. And, if you use a power amp that isn't designed to be as flat as possible, i.e., that colors the sound like most do, then you should turn off modeling of the power amp, losing that control too. Some people want the resulting sound, some don't.
 
I tried a Headrush 112 and it's one of the worst sounding speakers I have ever had the misfortune of listening to. The FM3 is a great piece of kit, but listening to it on the cheapest PA speaker you can find might leave you feeling disappointed.

Personally, I would buy a used katana for band practice, and just play the FM3 at home with headphones until I could afford a good speaker. The katana can then be a backup once you get a decent powered speaker for the FM3.
 
I tried a Headrush 112 and it's one of the worst sounding speakers I have ever had the misfortune of listening to. The FM3 is a great piece of kit, but listening to it on the cheapest PA speaker you can find might leave you feeling disappointed.

Personally, I would buy a used katana for band practice, and just play the FM3 at home with headphones until I could afford a good speaker. The katana can then be a backup once you get a decent powered speaker for the FM3.

Agree 100%. I tried Headrush’s a few times, tweaked, thought everything was boxy yet boomy at the same time. But overall, I’m not a big fan of frfr, I thought the Friedman ASM-12m was underwhelming.

I have an FM3, a Katana 100 head, Kat 2x12 cabinet and a Katana Artist mk2, the Artist is THE only Katana combo I’d own. It’s a bigger box and has a better speaker than the smaller katanas, but I didn’t like the Katana 2x12 100 watt combo, go figure.

The kat100 head on the Kat 2x12 cabinet, in stereo with the Kat Artist it sounds massive. And frankly, I’d put that setup against anything. I’m experimenting with the FM3 in that setup, either as just for effects or the power amp in. That entire Katana setup is still cheaper than 2 quality frfr’s such as Atomic, Gemini, or Xitone.

Ideally though, just the FM3 into 2 monitors would be the best, easiest, most flexible, convenient solution. The sound I’m hearing with frfr just hasn’t won me over, lacks the ooomph of a real guitar cabinet. Ymmv
 
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My opinion , the Headrush stuff sucks for Axe3, but if the budget is limited, then a good deal, just hated the tone I got with my 2x12 Headrush
 
I have an FM3, a Katana 100 head, Kat 2x12 cabinet and a Katana Artist mk2, the Artist is THE only Katana combo I’d own.
I don't have the Katana, but I have the Boss Nextone Special, again with the better speaker and cabinet than the other Nextones, and I absolutely love it. As you, I tried various FRFR solutions (Headrush, Line 6, Friedman) and couldn't find anything I really enjoyed until I tried what I have now. As a side bonus, I have an amp too, which I can use as-is if I ever get the urge to play with pedals.
 
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