Headphones vs. FRFR

J

jsp0511

Member
Hello all!

I currently run my Axe II through one QSC K12 with great results. I've been looking to do more playing/tweaking with headphones while the Mrs. is home or sleeping but I'm running into an issue I'm sure many of you have run into.

I have a pair of AKG K 271 MKIIs that sound very buzzy/fizzy when I use my high gain presents so I cannot tweak current presets or create new ones using headphones and expect them to sound useable when going through my K12. I am in no way an EQ maven but I'd like your input on this idea to see if I should even waste my time.

Can I take a preset that sounds to my liking through the K12 and add an EQ at the end of the preset tweaking it to sound through the headphones like it does through the K12? Or would I be killing myself trying to get it close enough to work? (the EQ in question would only be used when I'm using headphones, off when using my monitor of course)

If I am able to EQ the headphones to sound close to the K12 in one preset, could I theoretically use that same EQ at the end of every preset and trust that all presets will sound equally as good through the K12?

If the above is not possible, would a pair of AKG K 701's (or a competitive equivalent) get me to where I want to be?

Any thoughts, ideas or feedback are greatly appreciated.

Thank you!
 
Headphones just give you a different feel/sound. You can only mix with the knowledge of what it sounds like with headphones compared to your normal setup. Experience is a substitute for SOME component quality, but (imo) speakers will always get you closer. Grados are really good headphones though =P
 
First of all (fyi), headphones are "FRFR" (full range, flat response), as are stage monitors, PA's, studio monitors, in-ear monitors, home stereos, etc. The difference is that some are more flat than others. Traditional guitar cabinets, on the other hand, are neither full range nor flat response.

As for your question, I do the opposite to what you're proposing. My in-ears are flatter than my studio monitors in their current acoustical environment. My room adds a lot of upper mids and makes everything sound bright. So what I do is match my studio monitor / room combination to my in-ears using the mixer EQ in my home studio. So in broad terms, the approach you're thinking about will work. How closely you can match the two will depend on a number of things, such as the complexity of the gaps between the two, your tolerance for discrepancies, etc.

It might be worth trying the global EQ first. One change affects all your patches. I used to do this. I used Output 1 to feed one device and Output 2 with equalization to feed another. This may, or may not, work in your configuration. You also have less precision with the 8 band EQ versus using a parametric. Still, it will simplify things if it's a fit.

Good luck!

Terry.
 
The problem here is that you need string body reinforcement to get the best sound out of any guitar. If you only get your sound coming through cans, then it will always sound more sterile than having the sound coming through the guitar. That is why you get that buzzy/fizzy sound.

Now, with that being said, I don't know if you can dial in an EQ to get a satisfactory result for what you are trying to do. Maybe some users have had some experience with that and are going to chip in?
 
Same issue here. The high gain Axe FX 2 sounds WAY buzzy / fizzy through my studio headphones. A lot more than a mic-ed amp or any other modeler I have. It sounds pretty fizzy through my regular powered studio monitors as well, but nearly as much as through headphone. It's almost impossible for me to record through headphones because of that. Can't see what I'm doing wrong through - just Axe FX straight through mixer to headphones with no EQ or effects.
 
I just picked up some DT 880's since most guys are happy with the results. Once they get here I'll take a crack at my presets with them and report back. Hopefully they require little to no EQ tweaking. My AKG's just sound terrible.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I had some KRKs that, while enjoyable with other sources, were absolutely crap with my AFX. I made the switch to the 880's and am so glad I did. I think you will be too.
 
I'd say if possible, do all your major eq cuts and shaping with your qsc when possible. Use headphones for everything else. I am however in a condo with neighbors and have no choice but to use headphones. Its just easier knowing they can never complain about me. I use the Audio Technica ATM 50s. They do pretty decent. So far most venues, house sound guys think it sounds good. I am limited sadly but hopefully in this next year I'll be buying a house :)

Also, I think Global eq is your friend too. At the gig this is the only thing I mess with.
 
Tone Seeker said:
First of all (fyi), headphones are "FRFR" (full range, flat response)
Click to expand...

Karl Houseknecht said:
I heartily disagree. Most headphones are heavily skewed on the low end and midrange.
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Then, we have to define and agree on what is considered "flat response" . . . how many dB of deviation from perfect is tolerable? Some stage wedges have a mid range emphasis to make vocals cut, yet some of these wedges are also used as FRFR solutions for guitar modeller amplification. And, while some headphones are heavily skewed on the low end and mid-range, others are not, and are reasonably neutral. We can't dismiss headphones as a reasonable way to monitor the AxeFX, just because some of the product out there is poorly designed.

The point of my post was that "FRFR" is not an amplification solution designed only for guitar modellers. It's a general term used more broadly to categorize amplification systems that are designed to amplify sounds that fall within the range of human hearing. Headphones try do that. Some do it poorly. Some do it very well. I have a set of custom in-ears that do it very well. They are actually more neutral and "flat response" than my Dynaudio studio monitors, given the room my studio monitors are currently in.

Hope this helps.

Terry.
 
I've found that FRFRs are good if u wanna maintain that amp in the room sound and feeling.
They won't colour the sound. So if you have the cab sim on, and everything post cab off (mic sim off and stuff), the cab sim itself will do all the cutting and shaping.
Then the FRFR will let out whatever comes out of the cab sim just as it is without adding anything (emulates anp + cab sound). The room u're playing at might colour the sound ofc, but that's just in the same way it would colour your regular guitar cab.
I put my FRFR speakers behind me, then tweak the speaker page so I get the resonance freq and other parameters right. This way I get the tone and feel (emulates amp + cab feeling).

Keep in mind that this is all at studio volume. All of this holds no sense when using headphones.

I'm just an amp guy. I have the axe mainly cos of the amps. I rarely use anything else, just amp and cab sim.

Basically when I'm home and using headphones, I grab and amp and cab and tweak it. If I wanna go to a studio or something where I have to play loud, imma just turn on, select amp and cab, then tweak. Almost like just carrying an amp around.
 
Because I live in an appartment I am bound to play with headphones most of the time. Only at rehearsals and gigs I get the chance to play through my monitor, so I guess that around 75% of my playing is done with my AKG K271 headphones. Because these headphones are 'closed' by design, the sound can be very direct and to be honest I think this is the reason why you experience high gain patches to be too fizzy. When I play with headphones I always immediately change the Room-Settings from the cab. You should really try to set the room mix to 100% and adjust the mix and room zie from there. This always gives me much more enjoyment to play! May not be ideal to create presets, but for playing I really like it.
 
Other than frequency repsonse differences, two of the main differences you'll hear when monitoring through headphones are the lack of room reflections and the lack of channel bleed. The listening environment plays an huge role in how we perceive sound. Our brains process all of those reflections and suble phase and frequency response shifts so we can orient ourselves in the environment. Since headphones are little more than tiny speakers strapped to our heads, they eliminate all of that environmental interaction and our brains notice the difference immediately. It doesn't quite sound right because there's no "room" in the sound. You have to compensate by providing artificial room reflections via delay and/or reverb in order to get a more "natural" sound. Also, as we encounter sounds in a real environment, the sound bounces all around us and both ears will hear the same sound no matter where it is coming from around us. Even sounds that are to our immediate right are still heard by our left ear after it bounces around the room. This type of channel bleed also provides a huge amount of spatial information to our brains. Again because headphones are strapped directly to each ear, this interaction between both ears is removed and sounds very unnatural. Because this interaction is dependent on the actual listening environment, it is quite difficult to recreate, especially as we move around a room and turn our heads. A good stereo reverb can get close, but it's never quite the same with headphones no matter how good they are.
 
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Tones2 said:
Same issue here. The high gain Axe FX 2 sounds WAY buzzy / fizzy through my studio headphones. A lot more than a mic-ed amp or any other modeler I have. It sounds pretty fizzy through my regular powered studio monitors as well, but nearly as much as through headphone. It's almost impossible for me to record through headphones because of that. Can't see what I'm doing wrong through - just Axe FX straight through mixer to headphones with no EQ or effects.
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The Axe-Fx II outputs are pretty hot. You're probably overdriving your mixer. Make sure you have the mixer inputs set to line level. This is a common mistake.
 
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