Headphones once again. How to make them sound like a cab?

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plexi59

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This thread is unlike most other "headphones" threads in that I'm not going to ask for advice on which headphones to buy. I already have several pairs of Sennheisers and AKGs and they sound great for playback.

I'm looking for a no-compromise solution for late night practicing, and Axe just sounds weird through them, with a backing track or without. Pick attack is much more harsh, it just sounds "metallic" and thin for the lack of a better description, no "plasticity" to the tone at all.

Has anyone figured out a way to compensate the patch so that it sounds like a cab in a room? Maybe some kind of special IR? Reverb settings? Crossfeed? All of the above? Something else?

I do really need to practice more, and the only time I can do that these days is when everyone is sleeping.
 
I've never been able to get headphones to sound like an amp in the room, but I kinda feel like it's an unwinnable battle. You're mainly fighting physics here. If there's a way to get a set of speakers strapped to your head to sound like a speaker cabinet pushing air that you're standing a few feet or further away from, I am unaware of it. The distance from the sound source to your ear is greatly different in those two scenarios, and your ears respond differently to the sounds because of it. Then there's the room itself, which accounts for a lot as well. Not trying to be a wet blanket here, but I kinda gave up on that struggle and accepted it for what it is. Maybe someone HAS broken through this barrier, but it ain't me. Lol Good luck on your quest though. :)
 
I've noticed e.g. Redwirez has the "room", far-field IRs. Are those any good? How different are they from just dialing in more "room" in the settings? I mean, ultimately, it should be possible to exactly recreate "room feel" with IRs if response is long enough. Ultra Res is 20ms, sound travels ~6.8m in 20ms. Given that it'd have to travel to the obstacle and back to end up in IR, even ultrares IRs don't seem to be sufficient to properly replicate a large room. But it doesn't have to be AxeFX alone. I'd be all right using some kind of software as well, if such software is available.
 
Tried Space Designer in Logic Pro X just now. I think with some tweaking it could fix the "room" issue (it can take pretty long IRs), but not the metallic attack.
 
I create separate headphone practice presets.

I use reverb blocks for headphone practice presets .... as well as a bit more input gain and tweaks of the usual tonestack BMTP in the Amp block. I use the same cab block as the live preset would to keep some of the same essence.

It's not a 'no compromise' method ..... but for silent practice duties it does fine.

These practice presets are not used for live
 
The problem with adding a reverb for emulating the room is, that the source signal still comes from right in front of the cab. What you need for a good amp-in-the-room feeling are IRs which are shot from a bigger distance, in the best case scenario with mics being placed on the ears of a plastic head. You, plexi59, already mentioned Redwirez's room-IRs. I don't know them or how they were created. But I know that the IRs from cabir.eu provide IRs which are shot with the above method. And thanks to UltraRes the result is really nice! Of course the reverb in these IRs isn't as long as it actually is in reality, because those 170ms simply aren't long enough for bigger rooms, but I promise you, it's as far as you can get when it comes to an amp-in-the-room feeling through headphones.

Would you like to have a sound example? I can provide one later!
 
Maybe someone will offer a solution to you, but it's really hard to make a small diaphragm mimic the behaviour of a big speaker's cone.
 
Try these:

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/vox-ac30-far-field-irs.105199/

Add some reverb. It's not the same but for headphones it's not too bad. If you need more bass or treble, turn volume up (necessary for a more room-like experience I'm afraid). If you want to retain your hearing use the speaker page + tone controls to compensate.

IMHO the redwirez and OH farfields suffer because they weren't made to be used as a stand alone IR (but as an auxiliary), so I doubt you'll be able to achieve what you're after with those.
 
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I'm going to be the annoying geek now. I pre-apologize. :)

1) People please stop saying "amp in the room". An amp alone makes no sound.

2) You can't make a tiny headphone driver up close to your ear sound like four 12 inch speakers in a cabinet in a room further away from you. It is physically impossible.

3) You can try to emulate this sound by essentially making your guitar unusable for every other use case like f.ex. sitting in a mix. So sure add a short slap reverb to simulate soundwaves hitting the nearfield. Add a room reverb to simulate a natural room decay. And EQ wise you want to make your tone a whole lot darker.

4) Although I also love playing with real amps and cabs I would suggest you to learn to love the sound of a miked guitar cab since that's the "only thing that matters to other people besides yourself". That would be the pro thing to do. It took me quite a long time to realize that an awesome guitar tone in the room is like a hole-in-one in golf when playing alone. It's not as much fun if no one else sees/hears it... didn't go for the sex/playing with yourself quote this time. :)
 
plexi59 said:
I'm looking for a no-compromise solution for late night practicing, and Axe just sounds weird through (headphones), with a backing track or without. Pick attack is much more harsh, it just sounds "metallic" and thin for the lack of a better description, no "plasticity" to the tone at all..
Click to expand...
A big part of what you're missing is acoustic feedback from your speaker to your guitar.

When you're playing through speakers, the sound from the speakers vibrates the strings and the guitar itself. Those vibrations get sent down your guitar cable and back to the amp, and the cycle starts all over again.

When you're playing through 'phones, your guitar can't "hear" your amp, so it can't react to it. The acoustic feedback loop is broken. That changes your tone, and it changes how the guitar feels.
 
ML SOUND LAB said:
4) Although I also love playing with real amps and cabs I would suggest you to learn to love the sound of a miked guitar cab since that's the "only thing that matters to other people besides yourself". That would be the pro thing to do. It took me quite a long time to realize that an awesome guitar tone in the room is like a hole-in-one in golf when playing alone. It's not as much fun if no one else sees/hears it... didn't go for the sex/playing with yourself quote this time. :)
Click to expand...

It took me working with the Axe Fx for a while to get through to this understanding, but it is SO key!

That tone we chase from whoever our hero/inspiration is, it's from a mic'd and post-processed amp and cab and mics and mixer, etc! It isn't what is heard by our ears in the sweet spot in front of the cab while playing at just the right volume... It can't be and never will be.

Unfortunately, we as guitarists DO know what it sounds like to stand in that spot in front of our own cab and find that glorious sound... But you'll never record it, and no audience members will ever hear it (unless they climb on stage).

Once I got this into my head, it was psychologically much easier for me to move on. I started really hearing the recorded sounds from my inspirations as just that, and then I realized it was much easier to match those sounds with the Axe Fx than with any traditional rig :)
 
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Rex said:
A big part of what you're missing is acoustic feedback from your speaker to your guitar.
Click to expand...

Nah. Axe even sounds better through studio monitors at very low volumes where there's very little acoustic feedback.
 
ML SOUND LAB said:
I'm going to be the annoying geek now. I pre-apologize. :)

1) People please stop saying "amp in the room". An amp alone makes no sound.

2) You can't make a tiny headphone driver up close to your ear sound like four 12 inch speakers in a cabinet in a room further away from you. It is physically impossible.

3) You can try to emulate this sound by essentially making your guitar unusable for every other use case like f.ex. sitting in a mix. So sure add a short slap reverb to simulate soundwaves hitting the nearfield. Add a room reverb to simulate a natural room decay. And EQ wise you want to make your tone a whole lot darker.

4) Although I also love playing with real amps and cabs I would suggest you to learn to love the sound of a miked guitar cab since that's the "only thing that matters to other people besides yourself". That would be the pro thing to do. It took me quite a long time to realize that an awesome guitar tone in the room is like a hole-in-one in golf when playing alone. It's not as much fun if no one else sees/hears it... didn't go for the sex/playing with yourself quote this time. :)
Click to expand...

1) That's why I said _cab_ in a room.

2) BS. You can make it sound it like anything with the right processing. It's just acoustic waves interacting with the ear. It doesn't matter where the transducer is, right over the year or 10 feet away. The key is finding how to process the signal.

3) That's all right with me. I can have other setups and patches for playing through cabs and FRFR.

4) The whole purpose of this thread is not "have to learn to love" anything, but figure out a set of settings that would be comfortable for me (and hopefully others) to practice with.
 
plexi59 said:
Nah. Axe even sounds better through studio monitors at very low volumes where there's very little acoustic feedback.
Click to expand...
There's still significantly more acoustic feedback with quiet monitors than there is with headphones. I'm not referring to the self-sustaining high-pitched notes that guitarists usually think of when they hear the word "feedback," but just sedate acoustic feedback that provides additional reinforcement, sustain and EQ. The effect is there long before any squeal shows up.
 
There isn't. There are basically two mechanisms for this "acoustic" feedback (quoted because it's not actually acoustic, it's more of a magnetic feedback):

1. Through strings that vibrate in response to sound wave pressure as well as in response to resonance of the guitar body (which also responds to sound wave pressure).
2. Through coils which may also vibrate in response to sound pressure, especially if they aren't e.g. potted in wax or epoxy.

Both of these require significant SPL for anything to vibrate, and the strength of both will depend directly on the SPL affecting the instrument. Low SPL practice through monitors is not going to product a ton of acoustic feedback.
 
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