HB/HBE. how much gain for live use

I'm in an original hard rock band which this past year has shared the stage with Flyleaf, Powerman 5000, RED, and Saliva. We are a two guitar band who both use AFx and go cabless on stage. I use a Gibson Lea Paul with Bare Knuckle pups and .12 gauge strings, tuned to drop C#.

The reason I'm saying this is to put some perspective to the style and rig I'm using.

The amp model I use is HBE and my gain is at 4 (11 o'clock). My mids are at 7 and my lows are at 3. Treble is at 4. My can lo cut is at 150 and hi cut at 6k.

This setting works great for us live and in the mix. By itself at low to moderate levels it sounds horrid, but shines in the mix.

Hope this helps!


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Just dialed that in with a TAF Mesa 4x12/EV12L UR--sounds great actually. I might actually use this on Wed night at a gig and report back with some vid clips.
 
pjrake said:
I'm in an original hard rock band which this past year has shared the stage with Flyleaf, Powerman 5000, RED, and Saliva. We are a two guitar band who both use AFx and go cabless on stage. I use a Gibson Lea Paul with Bare Knuckle pups and .12 gauge strings, tuned to drop C#.

The reason I'm saying this is to put some perspective to the style and rig I'm using.

The amp model I use is HBE and my gain is at 4 (11 o'clock). My mids are at 7 and my lows are at 3. Treble is at 4. My can lo cut is at 150 and hi cut at 6k.

This setting works great for us live and in the mix. By itself at low to moderate levels it sounds horrid, but shines in the mix.

Hope this helps!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Thanks. That's really close to my settings.
 
Since the OP is asking about live tone I'm kind of curious why there's a lot of "use less gain" advice going on here, which is more for in the studio than live. Given, you probably shouldn't dime the gain still, but I find a good rule of thumb when going from double tracking in the studio to live is to work with about twice the gain. So, if I'm around 3 in the studio, 6 is probably a good starting point live.
 
pjrake said:
I'm in an original hard rock band which this past year has shared the stage with Flyleaf, Powerman 5000, RED, and Saliva. We are a two guitar band who both use AFx and go cabless on stage. I use a Gibson Lea Paul with Bare Knuckle pups and .12 gauge strings, tuned to drop C#.

The reason I'm saying this is to put some perspective to the style and rig I'm using.

The amp model I use is HBE and my gain is at 4 (11 o'clock). My mids are at 7 and my lows are at 3. Treble is at 4. My can lo cut is at 150 and hi cut at 6k.

This setting works great for us live and in the mix. By itself at low to moderate levels it sounds horrid, but shines in the mix.

Hope this helps!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Interesting. I've been struggling with this amp (model). My gain is around 4 like you use, but I've never had the mids that high. I'll try it. What IR do you use? Thanks.
 
Ben.Last said:
Since the OP is asking about live tone I'm kind of curious why there's a lot of "use less gain" advice going on here, which is more for in the studio than live. Given, you probably shouldn't dime the gain still, but I find a good rule of thumb when going from double tracking in the studio to live is to work with about twice the gain. So, if I'm around 3 in the studio, 6 is probably a good starting point live.
Click to expand...

I agree. I use alittle more live.
 
tallcoolone said:
No one has ever suggested that John Petrucci uses too much gain but I guarantee if someone posted his settings in a preset most here would jump on him for having too much of it.
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I think that's a bit of a stretch, my brother.


tallcoolone said:
...IMO in order to make a suggestion about someone's tone you should at least hear it in context first.
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Absolutely true. If you check his posts above, you'll see he pretty much confined his comments to tones he's heard in context.
 
I always hear this gain argument and dont overtly doubt it, in a certain context. However, when I hear guys warming up/roadies or the player himself, I hear TONS of friggin gain. eg. saw STeve Vai, toooooooooooooooooooooooooooons of gain. Other metal bands, tooooooooooons. Now this may simply be perception, eg. maybe they dont have the preamp cranked to 10, maybe live , loud, fletcher munson all that makes it sound like toooons of gain; so at home 3-4 may sound like crap on the pregain/drive, and live sounds huge and massive gain.

So it comes down to are we talking the SOUND, or the number on a dial! All I can tell ya is, when I hear some tech or the player chugging on their guitars or wailing on leads, it aint set on a country twang setting!
 
jakel said:
Interesting. I've been struggling with this amp (model). My gain is around 4 like you use, but I've never had the mids that high. I'll try it. What IR do you use? Thanks.
Click to expand...

Using the CK IRs. Always used his IRs.

Sorry I didn't post a video. Will do that soon.


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symphx said:
I always hear this gain argument and dont overtly doubt it, in a certain context. However, when I hear guys warming up/roadies or the player himself, I hear TONS of friggin gain. eg. saw STeve Vai, toooooooooooooooooooooooooooons of gain. Other metal bands, tooooooooooons. Now this may simply be perception, eg. maybe they dont have the preamp cranked to 10, maybe live , loud, fletcher munson all that makes it sound like toooons of gain; so at home 3-4 may sound like crap on the pregain/drive, and live sounds huge and massive gain.

So it comes down to are we talking the SOUND, or the number on a dial! All I can tell ya is, when I hear some tech or the player chugging on their guitars or wailing on leads, it aint set on a country twang setting!
Click to expand...

Not to mention, there's a lot of different kinds of metal out there. There are passages of music that sound heavier than an elephants testes with the gain dialed back, the guitar sound is dynamic and raw and articulate, yet we all have heard plenty of metal with the gain up to 11 (which can also sound heavy and good when done right). Different strokes for different folks. This all being said, I think it's a pretty safe oversimplification that adding too much gain is a more common mistake than not dialing in enough.
 
I tend to use a lot more gain in the AxeFx realm than in real tube amp world. There's a few different reasons. First, the Axefx is overall way more defined and less noisy, so you can certainly add more gain before it becomes a mess. Second, if you use ideal Pentrode/Tetrode for virtual tubes it's going to get even tighter.

The other aspect for people playing low volume or through headphones is that the sound from the speakers that would normally excite the guitar is missing from the tone. This is a huge issue. Without those speakers blasting into your guitar your tone will often sound flat and lifeless, not to mention you will have much less sustain and no feedback.

In general regardless of the situation I tend to balance the gain knob with the input trim. The gain knob will add mass and subdue high end, while the input trim will add cut and punch. There's a million ways to skin this cat.
 
bdrepko said:
Turn up loud. Keep backing off the gain until you dont like the sound anymore. Bump up the gain a notch or two and there you are. Less gain as possible will give you a more articulated sound.
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This is the exact way I dial in my gain, works great, both for playing live and recording in the studio.
 
Ben.Last said:
Since the OP is asking about live tone I'm kind of curious why there's a lot of "use less gain" advice going on here, which is more for in the studio than live. Given, you probably shouldn't dime the gain still, but I find a good rule of thumb when going from double tracking in the studio to live is to work with about twice the gain. So, if I'm around 3 in the studio, 6 is probably a good starting point live.
Click to expand...

For me live, its about how loud I am monitoring.

The louder the monitors, the less gain I like to use. I get ear fatigue and the overall tone gets too harsh and stops being fun to play for me.

At medium or soft monitor levels, I crank more gain.
 
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