Having trouble using the looper, feel it affects tone of presets

[favance]

Again, I love all of the patches in this collection. However, something happens that changes the patch sound, when I start adding effects (even without enabling the effect block) to the patches (ex. wah, compressor, delays, volume pedal, etc.). It's almost as if the added blocks by themselves change the patch sound, without being enabled (note: I'm no where near maxing the cpu).

Any idea as to why this happens and what I can do to enable the patch original eq/sound, while adding effects. Also, any advice for using the patches in our own custom patches? Thanks.

 

[unix-guy]

Again, I love all of the patches in this collection. However, something happens that changes the patch sound, when I start adding effects (even without enabling the effect block) to the patches (ex. wah, compressor, delays, volume pedal, etc.). It's almost as if the added blocks by themselves change the patch sound, without being enabled (note: I'm no where near maxing the cpu).

Any idea as to why this happens and what I can do to enable the patch original eq/sound, while adding effects. Also, any advice for using the patches in our own custom patches? Thanks.

Post a preset as an example, maybe?

 

[favance]

So glad you love them! I think everyone who has a Fractal should have these; it really demonstrates the amazing variety of tones one can get. I believe in "the democratization of great tone."

As I explain in my blog post here, the FX Loop is NOT the traditional EFX loop like you have on a cab. I put it in there for people who only use the Fractal with a power amp and real external guitar cabinet. That way they too can at least hear the naked amps into their own real-life cab of choice (bypassing the Factory Cab). Yek is the one I got the idea from.

I think there is a way to turn that FX Loop block off in across all Naked Amp TonePack presets using the freeware FracTool (but please do donate to support it, because it is great!), but it will make not difference to leave the FX Loop block on for most, unless you also use Output2 for something in your rig setup. I've been away at Dweezilla all week (Dweezil Zappa's music camp) but will back in the studio next week....maybe I'll do a short YouTube video on how to turn the FX Loop block across all presets off using FracTool.

As far as a classic and great lead tone, I have to say that you can't go wrong with grabbing FAS Lead 1 preset to start! Put in a wah, maybe a FET drive block (my Klon "clean boost emulation" is to set this to drive about 4.7, tone about 4.7, switch type to germanium, add 0.9db to the mid EQ, and then set the level output knob in drive block to between 6 and 8 to taste) and the a stereo tape delay set to your taste, and away you go!

Hmmm... There should be NO change in sound when you add any kind of effect that is OFF. Not sure what is happening for you or why; first I've heard of that happening. This should be an issue across ANY Fractal preset you use if it is happening -- not something related to just these TonePack presets. That said, I don't know what kind of guitar you are using -- do you have heavy output humbuckers?

For the NON-AX8 units, the noise gate on all of these presets should be set to Auto or 1M (unless fuzz is being used, then it will be set to 90k, which to my ear works better with fuzz). AX8 users don't have the input impedance option. You may want to check the noise gate reaction to your playing? The CPU is low and less than 50% for all the Naked Amps (aside from the Bonus TonePack presets).

You can PM me if you are having other trouble and I'll try to help out. As far as your own patches, one way to approach this is this:

1. Set up a template rig (or pedalboard) of all the effects you already love, and save that in Axe-Edit as a preset -- name it something like "my favorite rig template."

2. Audition through the Naked Amp TonePack presets, and when you find an amp/cab you really love and want to use, save that just that Amp block and separately also that Cab block in Axe-Edit under the name of your choosing (in other words, "My Naked Dumble Lead Amp/Cab" or similar). If you like the drive block's setting I provided for that amp, save that as well.

3. Then, using Axe-Edit, import/ up your template rig preset in a preset slot of your choice, then load the amp block and cab block into it and save it as a preset - name it what you like. "coolest rig ever!"

4. Tweak the effects in the rig to work with the new amp and optimize to your own taste, and save.

One last thing: I always liked going through the Fractal Factory Presets and saving specific effects or amp/cab blocks I really liked, to build an effects blocks arsenal/library I could tap at anytime. This is same concept, applied to the TonePack.

ENJOY!

So, I found the issue! While adding various blocks (including the Looper) to these presets, some of the volume/tone was sucked out of the patch. It seems that some of the default blocks, including the Looper, affect the Patch Volume and response of the overall patch in a bad way. I normally use the looper in all my patches (at the end). I had to set the Mix to 35% in order to correct this issue. So, AustinBuddy, what we need now is a few Patch examples that included things like Compressor, Wah, Delay, etc. examples that would generally work with your presets...maybe an "Effects TonePack" that are normalized that are ready to be used with the "Amp TonePack"? (I have me credit card out...)

 

[unix-guy]

So, I found the issue! While adding various blocks (including the Looper) to these presets, some of the volume/tone was sucked out of the patch. It seems that some of the default blocks, including the Looper, affect the Patch Volume and response of the overall patch in a bad way. I normally use the looper in all my patches (at the end). I had to set the Mix to 35% in order to correct this issue. So, AustinBuddy, what we need now is a few Patch examples that included things like Compressor, Wah, Delay, etc. examples that would generally work with your presets...maybe an "Effects TonePack" that are normalized that are ready to be used with the "Amp TonePack"? (I have me credit card out...)

You said the tone was affected when the blocks were bypassed. There is NO way that the settings of the blocks can do that if they are bypassed, other than the Mute Method.

Now, if you have put effects in parallel, there could be some effect, but you should make appropriate settings for parallel use if doing that... Such as Bypass Mode to Mute.

As suggested previously, post a preset...

 

[iaresee]

So, I found the issue! While adding various blocks (including the Looper) to these presets, some of the volume/tone was sucked out of the patch. It seems that some of the default blocks, including the Looper, affect the Patch Volume and response of the overall patch in a bad way. I normally use the looper in all my patches (at the end). I had to set the Mix to 35% in order to correct this issue. So, AustinBuddy, what we need now is a few Patch examples that included things like Compressor, Wah, Delay, etc. examples that would generally work with your presets...maybe an "Effects TonePack" that are normalized that are ready to be used with the "Amp TonePack"? (I have me credit card out...)

Send a preset to me or @austinbuddy via the Conversation feature of the forum and we'll show you what you're doing wrong; the looper doesn't have this kind of impact on presets so it's got to be something with how you're using it.

 

[favance]

You said the tone was affected when the blocks were bypassed. There is NO way that the settings of the blocks can do that if they are bypassed, other than the Mute Method.

Now, if you have put effects in parallel, there could be some effect, but you should make appropriate settings for parallel use if doing that... Such as Bypass Mode to Mute.

As suggested previously, post a preset...

So, for example, the "Looper" is never really bypassed, if you want to have it available in the patch. Bypassing totally disables it and makes it unavailable for the patch! I did find a way around the issue... Turn the Mix to 35% and the Looper has no affect on the Patch. Can you confirm this (Axe-FX II...not sure what it does on the other versions).

 

[unix-guy]

So, for example, the "Looper" is never really bypassed, if you want to have it available in the patch. Bypassing totally disables it and makes it unavailable for the patch! I did find a way around the issue... Turn the Mix to 35% and the Looper has no affect on the Patch. Can you confirm this (Axe-FX II...not sure what it does on the other versions).

Your post said tone was impacted when you added effect blocks even when they were all bypassed. So, are you amending that statement now?

Are you running the Looper in parallel?

 

[Bakerman]

So, for example, the "Looper" is never really bypassed, if you want to have it available in the patch. Bypassing totally disables it and makes it unavailable for the patch! I did find a way around the issue... Turn the Mix to 35% and the Looper has no affect on the Patch. Can you confirm this (Axe-FX II...not sure what it does on the other versions).

The looper reduces dry level continuously as mix value is increased, like most blocks (except delay where dry is constant from 0-50% mix). For example at 50% mix, unity dry gain can be obtained with block level at 3 dB.

 

[favance]

The looper reduces dry level continuously as mix value is increased, like most blocks (except delay where dry is constant from 0-50% mix). For example at 50% mix, unity dry gain can be obtained with block level at 3 dB.

So, I'm not sure what this means (maybe others are equally confused). Question: at what Looper Value(s) does the original signal NOT get affected? (i.e. refuse the the terms where us mere mortals can understand it)...BTW, I think a lot of the documentation for this wonderful box could be reduced to an understandable level.

 

[favance]

Your post said tone was impacted when you added effect blocks even when they were all bypassed. So, are you amending that statement now?

Are you running the Looper in parallel?

Ok. So, I'm guilty...Maybe a lot of us are. I have over 40 years as a Software Engineer. Even though the terms and the control usage in the Axe-FX continue to confuse me, as I am 1) not an Acoustics or Electrical Engineer 2) I do know what sounds good and what does not. Maybe we should focus our efforts on explaining the parameters in a way that the average, intelligent Guitarist can understand it?

 

[Bakerman]

Question: at what Looper Value(s) does the original signal NOT get affected? (i.e. refuse the the terms where us mere mortals can understand it)...BTW, I think a lot of the documentation for this wonderful box could be reduced to an understandable level.

As mix % is increased the dry level gets decreased. The only mix value (with block level at 0 dB) where dry level equals original/shunt level is 0%. If you want to cancel the loss of level with nonzero mix % you can either increase the block level or route it parallel to a shunt with mix at 100%.

 

[favance]

As mix % is increased the dry level gets decreased. The only mix value (with block level at 0 dB) where dry level equals original/shunt level is 0%. If you want to cancel the loss of level with nonzero mix % you can either increase the block level or route it parallel to a shunt with mix at 100%.

Not sure I understand this still... I had to turn the Mix Level on the Looper to 35% before it sound (to me) the same as if I disabled the Looper Block (at the end of the chain)... So, how does the equate to your statement... your statements are unclear. How does the Looper at the end of the chain affect the sound? What is the correct value to have no affect on the original signal (when in series)?

 

[Rex]

Not sure I understand this still... I had to turn the Mix Level on the Looper to 35% before it sound (to me) the same as if I disabled the Looper Block...

Turn it to 0%. How does the level sound? Should be equal to the level when the looper is bypassed (bypassed doesn't mean "not running;" it means actually placed in Bypass).

How does the Looper at the end of the chain affect the sound?

The same as when it's placed anywhere else in the chain.

What is the correct value to have no affect on the original signal (when in series)?

The only mix value (with block level at 0 dB) where dry level equals original/shunt level is 0%.

 

[iaresee]

Not sure I understand this still... I had to turn the Mix Level on the Looper to 35% before it sound (to me) the same as if I disabled the Looper Block (at the end of the chain)... So, how does the equate to your statement... your statements are unclear. How does the Looper at the end of the chain affect the sound? What is the correct value to have no affect on the original signal (when in series)?

Why don't you start a new thread instead of derailing this one? Your looper problems have nothing to do with this preset pack.

 

[favance]

Why don't you start a new thread instead of derailing this one? Your looper problems have nothing to do with this preset pack.

For the record, this is uncalled for. This Amp Preset pack is the Bomb, I want to make that very clear to everyone. I am trying to understand how one might go about adding other Axe-FX effects (including the Looper) to these patches w/o destroying the integrity of what has been delivered to us. IMHO, this is very relevant...sorry if you feel it is non-related (that's your problem). Again, I am very appreciative of this contribution from valued members and I have voted w/my money and support!

 

[unix-guy]

For the record, this is uncalled for. This Amp Preset pack is the Bomb, I want to make that very clear to everyone. I am trying to understand how one might go about adding other Axe-FX effects (including the Looper) to these patches w/o destroying the integrity of what has been delivered to us. IMHO, this is very relevant...sorry if you feel it is non-related (that's your problem). Again, I am very appreciative of this contribution from valued members and I have voted w/my money and support!

Sorry, but I agree with Ian. You seem to be having a problem, but that is really not relevant to this preset pack. There is nothing special about these presets in how the Looper or other effects work.

Additionally, creating your own thread will likely get you more input as it will be focused on your specific issue.

 

[lqdsnddist]

For the record, this is uncalled for. This Amp Preset pack is the Bomb, I want to make that very clear to everyone. I am trying to understand how one might go about adding other Axe-FX effects (including the Looper) to these patches w/o destroying the integrity of what has been delivered to us. IMHO, this is very relevant...sorry if you feel it is non-related (that's your problem). Again, I am very appreciative of this contribution from valued members and I have voted w/my money and support!

I mean this with no offense, but you need a certain degree of shall we say "hand-holding", with the basics of the Axe-Fx blocks. That's fine and good if you want things explained for you at the level of the average guitarist, but your issues are not specific to these patches.

You want to learn how blocks like the looper work, and that you feel adding blocks is somehow going to "destroy the integrity of what has been delivered to us" clearly illustrates a lack of understanding of how the Axe-Fx works. Again, there isn't anything wrong with not understanding these things, the 'mix laws', series vs parallel fx blocks, blocks that do and don't make a difference depending on where you position them etc are all things everyone has had to learn.

This thread isn't meant to be "Teach Mr. Favance Axe-Fx blocks 101"

 

[iaresee]

For the record, this is uncalled for.

I asked nicely. Now I'm moving it for you.

I moved everyone's post who responded to your original request for help so there's continuity. Apologies to anyone who got a message about their post being moved and wondered why.

Happy debugging. I'm going back to enjoying Disneyland now.

 

[Billbill]

Lol

 

[chris]

I am trying to understand how one might go about adding other Axe-FX effects (including the Looper)

this topic is a very general, basic topic, and not specific at all to the presets you purchased. it would have just gotten lost in the other thread, and it would have derailed the actual topic of that thread, which was the presets as-is.