Having problem setting up my output levels. Help needed.

boltrecords

boltrecords

Fractal Fanatic
I just received my new Xitone powered FR cabinet with a Dayton Audio Amp.
the levels on the amp set up by setting the axefx iii to the loudest preset then bringing up the level on the cabinet until it flickers at -3db. This works fine with my high gain patches but when i try to do this with my clean patches i can barely get the meter to light up on the cabinet without clipping the output of the axefx.
if i push the axe harder it clips the output. If i back it down to unity gain on the axe fx i don't get anywhere close to gig volume on the cabinet (clean presets).

Any ideas or help would be appreciated

FYI, running output 1 on the axefx iii. Line level into the xitone cabinet.
 
that definitely helped. But now the problem is somewhat opposite. The axefx has a ton more headroom but the input on the cabinet will clip if i get near unity gain on the axefx VU meters.
 
It’s done to limit calls to support; from not understanding consumer vs pro (levels) in audio gear. Cliff explains in the stickied thread above this section.
 
boltrecords said:
that definitely helped. But now the problem is somewhat opposite. The axefx has a ton more headroom but the input on the cabinet will clip if i get near unity gain on the axefx VU meters.
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Then keep the Axe turned down.

Define what you are calling “unity gain.”

Is your Output knob turned all the way up?
 
chris said:
Then keep the Axe turned down.

Define what you are calling “unity gain.”

Is your Output knob turned all the way up?
Click to expand...

By unity gain I mean the point where the axefx VU meter changes from green to red on the output block. I set that and then turned the output knob on the front panel all the way up. Then i set the cabinet to the point before it clips.

So either way I have to set and leave either the cabinet level or axefx output knob. If either get turned up past the point where I set it the cab will clip.

So am I better off setting the cabinet level and leaving it there. then using the axefx output knob on the front panel for master volume control?

Or does that not really matter which one is left alone? For some reason i don’t think I should be running the cabinet on 10.
 
If the output of the Axe is too loud, then turn down the Output knob. That’s why it’s a knob. It is not designed to be turned all the way up in all situations.
 
chris said:
If the output of the Axe is too loud, then turn down the Output knob. That’s why it’s a knob. It is not designed to be turned all the way up in all situations.
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I understand that. But ideally the levels should be set so that If either the axefx knob or the Cabinet knob does have to be turned “all the way up” the axe or cab won’t clip.

Im guessing you not understanding what I’m trying to explain. This is difficult to explain in text
 
boltrecords said:
I understand that. But ideally the levels should be set so that If either the axefx knob or the Cabinet knob does have to be turned “all the way up” the axe or cab won’t clip.

Im guessing you not understanding what I’m trying to explain. This is difficult to explain in text
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I think I do understand. But that’s basic gain staging. There should be no situation where the Axe “has to” be turned all the way up. The input of your amp can only take so much signal. So as with any gain staging, don’t clip the input of the next device. If you do, turn the previous device down. That’s all there is to it.

Can you explain situations where the Axe has to be turned all the way up?
 
chris said:
I think I do understand. But that’s basic gain staging. There should be no situation where the Axe “has to” be turned all the way up. The input of your amp can only take so much signal. So as with any gain staging, don’t clip the input of the next device. If you do, turn the previous device down. That’s all there is to it.

Can you explain situations where the Axe has to be turned all the way up?
Click to expand...

I don’t necesarily want to turn the axe all the way up. I just want to have the maximum volume swing. Need to be able to raise the volume to the max without clipping if need be depending on the gig.
 
boltrecords said:
I don’t necesarily want to turn the axe all the way up. I just want to have the maximum volume swing. Need to be able to raise the volume to the max without clipping if need be depending on the gig.
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That’s just not possible in most situations. The amp has limits on its input. If you adjust the presets to be quieter so you can turn the Axe volume up all the way, then you’ll still be at the same perceived volume.

The “resulting amount” of signal is the same no matter where you turn down or up. You’re limited by the amount of input each device can handle, and ultimately how much output your power amp and speakers can deliver. Turning down here so you can turn up there yields the same result.

Generally you want to adjust your power amp louder when necessary. If everything before the power amp is at actual unity gain, and turning the power amp up all the way isn’t loud enough, then you don’t have a powerful enough amp/speaker, or you need to add more.

An amp is amplifying signal that is fed into it. The same exact Axe signal into a 100w power amp would sound quieter than into a 500w power amp because of the amp, not because of the Axe volume knob. To make that 100w amp louder, you wouldn’t turn up the Axe volume - that doesn’t make the amp “more watts.”

Again, this comes back to the basic principle of gain staging. Ideally set each device output so it doesn’t clip the input of the next device. That’s really it. If that means 1 o clock on your Axe output, then changing anything before that so you can turn the Axe output more isn’t gonna be louder.
 
Again I think we’re not understand each other. I get that there is a limitation on volume. I don’t want unlimited volume. I’m simply trying to set up my rig so that when i have the axe output turned up to 10 that is the max volume i can achieve without clipping. It’s there if i need it. Does that make sense?
 
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boltrecords said:
This works fine with my high gain patches but when i try to do this with my clean patches i can barely get the meter to light up on the cabinet without clipping the output of the axefx.
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That's the way it is with distortion. At a given perceived volume, clean tones have higher peaks than distorted tones. High-gain tones compress those peaks down to nothing, so you can get away with higher levels.

It's like expecting your car to maintain the same speed at a given gas pedal setting whether it's towing a 10,000-lb trailer or not. It ain't gonna happen.
 
boltrecords said:
Again I think we’re not understand each other. I get that there is a limitation on volume. I don’t want unlimited volume. I’m simply trying to set up my rig so that when i have the axe output turned up to 10 that is the max volume i can achieve without clipping. It’s there if i need it. Does that make sense?
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Ok that’s the part I was missing.

Then you probably need to set your presets unnecessarily low so that the max output of the Axe is much less than it usually is. Then you can send “max volume” without clipping the amp’s input.

You might first try reducing the Global EQ gain - this should let you keep your presets leveled correctly, yet less output is happening in general. This may not be enough range though, and you still may have to reduce all presets.

I see what you’re going for, but that’s not usually how it’s done, which explains why the gear doesn’t work that way already. Typically people would turn the amplifier up and down during the gig, not the tone generator. But each situation is different. The Axe should give you enough volume without needing to turn all the way up. Can you instead set the amp to be “pretty loud” when the Axe knob is at 9 o clock?

9 - 3 o clock should be a huge range for adjusting during the gig.
 
boltrecords said:
Again I think we’re not understand each other. I get that there is a limitation on volume. I don’t want unlimited volume. I’m simply trying to set up my rig so that when i have the axe output turned up to 10 that is the max volume i can achieve without clipping. It’s there if i need it. Does that make sense?
Click to expand...

I do the same thing you are doing but I set up everything to reach peak volume around 1 o'clock on Axe out 1. Out 2 goes to house and stays on 11 o'clock. My expression pedal only controls volume on out one so the house gets the same level consistently and I can bring my monitor up to where I need it. Even though my max volume is staged at 1 o'clock I never go that far.
 
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