Hating my Axe FX, any last words before I sell?

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AlGrenadine said:
Go frfr, it's the real deal !
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I did that initially- still have my Q12a from Matrix. Highs were brittle and there wasn't fullness- almost like the NL212 debacle but on a larger scale. Maybe my Matrix products suck? I've always seen so many users with them + the axe so I never really questioned their stuff- seemed a lot like Atomic.

I've done a lot of recording at studios over the years, but it was weird not hearing the 'amp in the room thing' so I ended up going for the poweramp/cab.

BB Preamp?
On a serious note, though, what's up with the BB preamp? I see a ton of users swearing by it, but it always darkens/muddies up my tone, much moreso than my real BB preamp. Again, I suppose this could be user error, but it's much less transparent than my real thing. Anyone else agree?

For my gain staging, I've trying to achieve a clean, light breakup, crunch, palm mute, and lead sound. In my traditional tube rig, I hit the DRRI with the Bog Blue for light breakup. I run a Koko boost in front of the bog blue for more gain (crunch), then I run a TS-style pedal after that for a palm muted sound. Run a boost at the end of the chain for the lead

I have been trying to do a similar setup with the Axe FX, utilizing two drive pedals, and having one push the other one. Maybe this isn't possible.

Before doing that, though, I've tried making a scene controller on the input drive of amps to gain stage them via scenes. Never quite got desirable results with that method though
 
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bgrizzmayne said:
Meh, yeah this forum's been very patient and helpful with me- I apologize for the 3 or so threads I've started that left me frustrated. When you spend this much $$ on a device and keep investing, it can get frustrating. Still, that's no reason for me to take it out on other forum members (if I have) and I really appreciate everyone throwing their two cents in and helping me with fresh ideas.

I'm going to start a dialogue with Scott via e-mail (just PM'd him) and and am messaging Thomas to see if I can meet up with him. Really trying to give the Axe a proper go before I completely liquidate it.

I've got a duo gig tomorrow, but the next time my roommate's gone, I'll try taming the NL212 with a global EQ, rolling off highs above 8k, rather than having to do it individually with dirt boxes and the treble on the amp.
Perhaps Scott can direct me toward some tone shaping tips that will help with the 'fullness' and amp-ness of the models. It can just get annoying to lug in & set up my entire two rigs in my tiny house, then get no results! Maybe you guys have been there

Ben
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My friend, sometimes the journey can be a bumpy one. In time, I'll bet that you look back on this experience feeling like it was a valuable one, regardless of which way you go with this. Corresponding with AxeFx experts and getting together in person with others will help get you over the hump one way or the other. Try to keep an open mind and even disposition for just a little while longer. Usually, the answers to this type of stuff will get resolved quickly once you're able to bounce things off of a third party who usually brings their unique experiences, viewpoints and methods to the table. A fresh perspective can be a very good thing. Good luck!
 
Sounds like something basic is amiss in your setup.

You should contact Fractal support directly and they can help you trouble shoot your setup. Forums aren't really the place to deal with technical problems.
You definitely should be able to easily achieve what you are looking for, as you have described above.

Contact support and work with them.

cheers,
Robin.
 
bgrizzmayne said:
4 pages in and I've only responded one time because I started the thread last night....I only have a limited amount of time to test my rig at high volumes when my roommate happens to be gone. (he works from home and never leaves). Furthermore, I only have a limited amount of time to check this forum.

I tried the 4x12 and it sounded closer to my JCM, but still lacked a tactile feel and sounded like a blanket or something in the mids that i couldn't get rid of. Furthermore, the 4x12 is pretty irrevelevent because I bought the rig to gig with, and I don't have a car that can lug a 4x12 around. If the NL212 is to blame, I don't know why they were so highly recommended around these parts. Everyone moving from a 4x12 to a NL212 was loving it with the axe....

I've found a rig in my deluxe verb + pedalboard that I gig with that sounds pretty great and meets my needs. I was curious about the axe's versatility because I've never tried a lot of the amps it models. But, whether i'm FRFR or using a poweramp+cab, it lacks body and dynamic feel. IMO everyone gets in their own axe bubble- a firmware release makes the axe sound/feel better, but compared to actual stuff, it's vastly inferior.

I wanted the Axe so I could check out/try different flavors of amps and be entertained. But if the Axe can only get me 70% of the way there....IDK if it's worth it. I know it's not a tube amp, but I thought it could get a lot closer.

Furthermore, if I ever want to do any serious playing with other amp models, I would need like reference tones to dial it in. With my 4x12, it is still so easy to make it sound bad. I'm not making drastic twists of knobs
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I gigged for years with a 64 BF Deluxe Reverb and pedalboard. I think my Axe II completely destroys it. With the Deluxe you have to make all kinds of choices and compromises about volume of amp vs pedal gain structure that you completely avoid with the Axe. I get better clean sounds and better gain sounds and better in the middle sounds than I got with my Deluxe. I play rootsy stuff (blues, zydeco, jazzish, funk, soul) so I'm not often using gainy sounds. For me the key to being really happy has been the Atomic CLR (RCF NX10 got me happy, too, but CLR moreso). Also, putting a little Axe into PA, even in small places where I could bury the place with my CLR, helps me to hear how great the sound is in the PA where it really shines. As others have noted, good luck getting your mic'd Deluxe to sound as good as a well-tuned Axe II into the PA.

The sound I get isn't the same as the "in the room" Deluxe, but I've totally made peace with the difference. I play with another guy sometimes using a Tweed Deluxe or 18 watt Marshall who has an awesome sound and I'm totally happy with how I sound next to that and I have WAY more versatility. Clean headroom? He has almost none with the Deluxe and I personally love big fat rhythm guitar tones. I can get 'em with all the grit I want, crystal clear and anywhere in between.

You're totally right about a Deluxe on a big open stage. It's going to get eaten up and you'd better hope the monitor person is treating you right. Part of what I love about the rig I have is that I can use the same setup from small places to outdoors to big stages and it scales perfectly. I never play any situation where one CLR isn't plenty or even too much if I want it to be, though I'm still planning on getting another to drown myself in gorgeous stereo.
 
bgrizzmayne said:
I did that initially- still have my Q12a from Matrix. Highs were brittle and there wasn't fullness- almost like the NL212 debacle but on a larger scale. Maybe my Matrix products suck? I've always seen so many users with them + the axe so I never really questioned their stuff- seemed a lot like Atomic.
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I started out with the Q12a, and felt it lacked a fullness in tone, sounds a bit like your experience. Got 2 CLRs and found instant satisfaction. I think Matrix is a great company with amazing products, but the Q12a wasn't for me. My CLRs fill the room, and provide all the punch and clarity I want. Just got my third for a WDW-rig.

If you can, try it - with the new IRs we're getting nowadays it's really worth checking out.
 
i think choice of amplification is the biggest culprit here. Like others have said...too many people get fantastic tones on a regular basis for it to be something wrong with the box.

Furthermore, acting like people that prefer the Axe tone don't know or have forgotten what a good amp sounds like is ludicrous. Most of us have owned great amps, best of the best. Every now and then I go in the GC Platinum room here in Nashville just to see if I'm missing anything. I play Bogners, 3rd Powers, Friedman, Divided by 13, vintage fenders and vox's, Splawn, 65 Amps....I always walk out knowing that I have the best thing going. I don't miss a thing. I have fantastic tone and feel everywhere, from stage to foh....not just hitting me in the knees. I play 3-4 gigs a week in Nashville and always get raves about my tones, from sound guys, to other players to audience members to the guys on the back wall with their arms folded daring you to impress them.

bottom line, it's not the Axe, and it would benefit you to find the weak link before getting rid of it. (and also, please, again, stop comparing it side by side with an amp in the room....please understand the difference in what the Axe does and is meant for.
 
thegrindcorps said:
Here is another great example of axe fx at work providing great tone and flexibility. These are my buddies in entrails eradicated from Australia. When they came over here they ran both guitars through one axe fx ultra and it still sounded great.
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Cliff , For the Love of God, PLEASE come out with a vocal unit that models well known vocalist(Freddy Mercury, Ronnie James Dio, Robert Plant , Roger Daltry , Miss Piggy......)
 
jlynnb1 said:
i think choice of amplification is the biggest culprit here. Like others have said...too many people get fantastic tones on a regular basis for it to be something wrong with the box.

Furthermore, acting like people that prefer the Axe tone don't know or have forgotten what a good amp sounds like is ludicrous. Most of us have owned great amps, best of the best. Every now and then I go in the GC Platinum room here in Nashville just to see if I'm missing anything. I play Bogners, 3rd Powers, Friedman, Divided by 13, vintage fenders and vox's, Splawn, 65 Amps....I always walk out knowing that I have the best thing going. I don't miss a thing. I have fantastic tone and feel everywhere, from stage to foh....not just hitting me in the knees. I play 3-4 gigs a week in Nashville and always get raves about my tones, from sound guys, to other players to audience members to the guys on the back wall with their arms folded daring you to impress them.

bottom line, it's not the Axe, and it would benefit you to find the weak link before getting rid of it. (and also, please, again, stop comparing it side by side with an amp in the room....please understand the difference in what the Axe does and is meant for.
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If I'm using an Axe FX with a poweramp/cabinet, shouldn't I be able to compare it side by side to an amp in the room? Honest question- I bought the poweramp/cab to get an amp in the room feel, and it made sense to me to AB two amps, since I effectively turned the axe into one. (i think..)
 
bgrizzmayne said:
If I'm using an Axe FX with a poweramp/cabinet, shouldn't I be able to compare it side by side to an amp in the room? Honest question- I bought the poweramp/cab to get an amp in the room feel, and it made sense to me to AB two amps, since I effectively turned the axe into one. (i think..)
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Yep you are right.
 
bgrizzmayne said:
Do you roll off any super lows in the global EQ? My main problem has been thin-ness, too much thin-nes and mids. When I crank the bass though, I get boomy and not full.
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Try cutting at 1K, 1.5K or 2K using a PEQ at the end of the chain.

Default Q, start with -1db @ 1K.

Keep lowering until it gets better. If no results, move up to 1.5K etc.

Thinness is sometimes in this frequency area.
 
bgrizzmayne said:
If I'm using an Axe FX with a poweramp/cabinet, shouldn't I be able to compare it side by side to an amp in the room? Honest question- I bought the poweramp/cab to get an amp in the room feel, and it made sense to me to AB two amps, since I effectively turned the axe into one. (i think..)
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i think you're right. it still may not sound "exact" because of the different components, but it should be comfortable.

if you're still here, i'm guessing you really do want to make it work :)

the main reason i use the axe is the different situations i gig in.

sometimes it's a full band without volume limits (within reason of course). then i bring my FRFR speaker and send a signal to FOH. this is most like a "normal" setup.

sometimes it's a duo with no monitors and just 1 PA speaker. axe goes straight to the PA of course since everyone is sharing 1 speaker, performers and audience. i also run my microphone and VoiceLive Rack into the Axe FX Loop for a single XLR cable to the FOH with my effected vocals and electric and piezo signals. i can cram so much into that one line of signal without mixers and speakers and amps, etc. with this setup, i see maybe 5 different PA systems throughout the month, all with different EQs and rooms etc. i try to use the mixer EQ to get rid of bass and treble problems, but also rely heavily on the axe global graphic EQ to make it sound good for the room. i don't think i could do this as easily with a guitar amp/cab setup.

in all situations, i generally have that "amp feeling" with my electric guitar, and a kickass preamp'd eq'd acoustic/piezo sound. as i said, some rooms/systems are better than others. i generally do not adjust anything in presets anymore. i have a "preset creation" situation at home - a particular volume with my gig speaker. so if everything sounds good there, it's generally some EQ adjustments at the gig as i mentioned above. if anything, lately i've been messing with the Multiband Compressor on my piezo path and the PEQ there too.
 
bgrizzmayne said:
If I'm using an Axe FX with a poweramp/cabinet, shouldn't I be able to compare it side by side to an amp in the room? Honest question- I bought the poweramp/cab to get an amp in the room feel, and it made sense to me to AB two amps, since I effectively turned the axe into one. (i think..)
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Nope. You would need to plug into the same speaker cabinet. Otherwise your comparing apples and oranges.

NL212 freq response 50-20KHz, typical guitar speaker 80-5KHz. These speakers will never sound the same without doing something. Your going to get more low and highs as a result. Mids will be flat. You need to adjust the eq or find a cab ir that sounds good to you. Or get a cab that actually has guitar specific speakers.

I use CLR's with UR ir's that sound similar to my marshall stacks. Play indoors with cab sims and clr's, outdoors I add the stacks without cab sim via output 2. Have not touched an advanced control, gigged about 50 times with this setup and only get comments on how good it sounds (at least 2 or 3 times a show), never had a comment about too much bass, highs, whatever.
 
bgrizzmayne said:
Do you roll off any super lows in the global EQ? My main problem has been thin-ness, too much thin-nes and mids. When I crank the bass though, I get boomy and not full.
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Depending on what patch I'm using, the Cut switch helps a lot with the boominess. The Low Cut Freq in the amp block and Low Cut in the cab block can help with that too. An old Scott Peterson tip was to put a PEQ block in, set the low shelf EQ to "blocking" and set the Freq to 200Hz.
 
bgrizzmayne said:
Do you roll off any super lows in the global EQ? My main problem has been thin-ness, too much thin-nes and mids. When I crank the bass though, I get boomy and not full.
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Sometimes if the amp is muddy i'll go in the amp and bump up the low cut from 20 to like 120, and that clears out some mud, then dial in the low end with the depth and bass. Some amps the bass is way down. 90% of the time I'm using the recto v30 (rw) with a 121 mic on it.

I haven't had much issue with boomy but on one stage that was pretty hollow, hit the global eq and rolled off some low end and that got me through the gig. I'm using a qsc k12 set in the sub mode (which cuts a lot of low end). I found that the way the monitor is sitting has a great effect as well, ie: wedge position vs upright. Currently I'm going upright like Dweezil.
 
bgrizzmayne said:
I've only gigged the rig 4 times. two times, I used output 1 with cab emulation to FOH output 2 to my Q12a, so I did FRFR exclusively. I hated that, so the last 2 I've just miced up my NL212 in mono because i didn't want to mess with IR's for FOH. This obviously sounded terrible, given my thread.

IMO sometimes people get in their Axe bubble and forget what good amps actually sound like. Yeah FW 14 sounds better etc etc, but any of my tube amps would absolutely murder it. I thought it'd be cool to be able to easily AB between a fender twin and a JCM800 without actually lugging them to gigs. I just expected the axe to AT THE VERY LEAST respond to pedals/gain staging like my normal amp would. that couldn't be further from the truth. I have to tickle these amps and do all kinds of tweaking to the pedal sims when i just want it to behave like an amp
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Take this for what it's worth. By your own admittance your point of reference for the AxeFX's accuracy is a quite limited - to just a few amps in all. There are many, many users who have rather extensive use of a large sample set of the amps being modeled (many with amps on hand for comparison) and none of them are experiencing the rather drastic negative experience (easy to make sound bad, only 70% there, vastly inferior, etc.) that you're describing. For my own part I used to collect and actively use/gig vintage amps and I've owned some boutique amps that I've used actively as well. The Vox's, Fender's, and Marshall's are there in sound and feel. The Fuchs ODS is there in sound and feel, The Mesa's are there in sound and feel. Dynamic response is all there. Where I have been able to directly compare the Axe can be made to sound and feel just like the amp.

It's my opinion that you're stuck in the 'amp in the room' bubble - the bubble that only the player hears/feels. From the listeners stand point (live or recorded) your sound fits in to the mix and doesn't sound the way you (the player) perceive it. This is almost certainly a user error issue. There are just too many players who are finding the AxeFX II does what it is designed to to extraordinarily well to put any stock in your assessment.

You should sell it and stick with your amp. You should probably stop wasting your time saying the same things over and over here on the users forum. We've heard you. It's not working for you. You don't feel that its dynamic response is accurate, You think it's easy to make the AxeFX sound bad. You feel that it only achieves 70% of what it is designed to do. You feel that it is vastly inferior to your amps. Did I cover everything.

I don't usually post strongly voiced, negative responses but in this case you're just spinning wheels and repeating yourself. Take someone up on their offer to help. Provide patches. Try those things suggested. Get together with someone local so that you may compare sound and feel between two AxeFX II units to determine if something isn't right with your AxeFX. Do these things to try to resolve the issue or sell it and stop posting. This is otherwise just noise.

/rant
 
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