Wish Hardware user Interface upgrades.

[Nsurround]

Since I own an FM9 I put this wish list in that category but this would apply to all Fractal units (FM3/AXE III). The big downside to using Fractal units including the FM9 is the hardware interface for controlling and getting to any of the myrid of parameters that one might tweak without using the computer software editor. This is especially true when for 'live' situations or times you just want to tweak a mainline parameter that would be on a real amp or fx pedal. The FM9 does have the Performance Pages where you can assign a parameter of an amp or fx block to one of the knobs below the units screen. However this is still fairly limiting especially if you have the unit on the floor for using the foot switches. You also have the ability to assign 16 external type controllers via midi cc to mapped parameters but that has a number of issues that currently make it not easy to use. Fractal really should update there units capability in some way so that some parameters can be controlled more easily and quickly. An external hardware assignable knob controller would go a long way to fix this issue/problem. This has been discussed in other categories of these forums but wanted to articulate better the issue on its own.

 

[chris]

An external hardware assignable knob controller would go a long way to fix this issue/problem.

can you describe what it would look like, how it would function, and how it would help?

The FM9 does have the Performance Pages where you can assign a parameter of an amp or fx block to one of the knobs below the units screen. However this is still fairly limiting especially if you have the unit on the floor for using the foot switches.

This seems like the same “issue” for a bunch of analog pedals on the floor with their knobs. How are performance pages different?

 

[Nsurround]

can you describe what it would look like, how it would function, and how it would help?


This seems like the same “issue” for a bunch of analog pedals on the floor with their knobs. How are performance pages different?

In regards to your second comment, yes standard analog pedals are normally on the floor or on a pedal board. But each has its own layout of controls to tweak if necessary. However I think that the FM3/FM9 and FC units are mainly used on the floor for switching presets/scenes not controlling parameters. As I said previously the Performance Pages are of some help but limiting to only certain knobs on the actual unit. In any case as far as your first question, the best solution would come from Fractal itself (no 3rd party) as a separate aux product similar to the FC-12 concept. The same idea but with assignable control knobs and their function displayed above or below. The knob controls would initialize relative to the assigned parameters last 'state' saved in the preset but if tweaked by the user could be stored or not on the controller itself. So if you assigned a knob to control the reverb time value it would initially be the value that was stored previously for that preset. From there you could tweak the value and save to the new value if wanted (relative). The other possibility would be to use a 3rd party midi cc knob controller in conjunction with fractals midi remote external control (16) feature using CC# etc. In order to do this there would need to be some updates to see that feature work properly. Whatever option, the knob controller could be at table or stand height and your main unit or FC could be on the floor for switching. This would go a long way to addressing the issue of the interface in a live situation or just messing about quickly with some parameters like you would on a real amp or possibly a FX pedal. The second option of using a 3rd party controller seems more do-able with less programming and design time than a new Aux unit from Fractal but probably would not have the same features available.

 

[chris]

In regards to your second comment, yes standard analog pedals are normally on the floor or on a pedal board. But each has its own layout of controls to tweak if necessary. However I think that the FM3/FM9 and FC units are mainly used on the floor for switching presets/scenes not controlling parameters. As I said previously the Performance Pages are of some help but limiting to only certain knobs on the actual unit. In any case as far as your first question, the best solution would come from Fractal itself (no 3rd party) as a separate aux product similar to the FC-12 concept. The same idea but with assignable control knobs and their function displayed above or below. The knob controls would initialize relative to the assigned parameters last 'state' saved in the preset but if tweaked by the user could be stored or not on the controller itself. So if you assigned a knob to control the reverb time value it would initially be the value that was stored previously for that preset. From there you could tweak the value and save to the new value if wanted (relative). The other possibility would be to use a 3rd party midi cc knob controller in conjunction with fractals midi remote external control (16) feature using CC# etc. In order to do this there would need to be some updates to see that feature work properly. Whatever option, the knob controller could be at table or stand height and your main unit or FC could be on the floor for switching. This would go a long way to addressing the issue of the interface in a live situation or just messing about quickly with some parameters like you would on a real amp or possibly a FX pedal. The second option of using a 3rd party controller seems more do-able with less programming and design time than a new Aux unit from Fractal but probably would not have the same features available.

How many knobs with a screen would be on the unit? It would be put on a stand, like a mic stand right next to you? Is it as big as an FC12, if not how big is it? How would it connect to the FM9?

 

[Nsurround]

How many knobs with a screen would be on the unit? It would be put on a stand, like a mic stand right next to you? Is it as big as an FC12, if not how big is it? How would it connect to the FM9?

Those are good questions, and they depend on the comm interface between the units. The USB interface seems likely if Fractal built one. The midi option for 3rd party midi knob controllers otherwise. The FC-12 has 12 switches but are spaced apart for easier access via the foot. That would not have to be the case for a knob controller produced by Fractal. Space wise the display is the biggest issue, I would probably opt for one display at the top that would show the parameter value of the current selected knob not necessarily a separate display for each knob. There are plenty of mic type stand platforms that can hold a laptop, so that really is not an issue. As to how many knobs I would think a 4x4 or 16 would be useful and one or two knobs maybe for saving the new value to the current preset etc. You could also have 'Banks' if wanted.

 

[lqdsnddist]

I can’t imagine many performance applications for needing a bank of 16 knobs to adjust amp or effect settings while playing…. Then again, I only have two hands and both of them are busy with the guitar lol

I have built little boxes with a few knobs, just expression pots, that can be fun for freak outs with delay repeats and stuff, but still….. that is a bit different than needing to adjust amp parameters on a mic stand while playing guitar

There actually was a rack mounted knob unit a number of years ago, forgot the name, and it never really was all that popular, I think it’s long since discontinued…

Most people would probably use an iPad with a controller software for what it sounds like your looking for.

Fractool is worth checking out

 

[JoKeR III]

Press the 'Layout' knob to show the grid. Select a block and press <EDIT>, this will open the edit display for that block. Consecutive presses of the <EDIT> button will cycle through the blocks in the preset (Double-pressing <EDIT> will move back through the blocks). Press the <PAGE> button to get to the page that has the parameters you want to use, then the onboard knobs can then be used to tweak the parameters.

 

[Nsurround]

I can’t imagine many performance applications for needing a bank of 16 knobs to adjust amp or effect settings while playing…. Then again, I only have two hands and both of them are busy with the guitar lol

I have built little boxes with a few knobs, just expression pots, that can be fun for freak outs with delay repeats and stuff, but still….. that is a bit different than needing to adjust amp parameters on a mic stand while playing guitar

There actually was a rack mounted knob unit a number of years ago, forgot the name, and it never really was all that popular, I think it’s long since discontinued…

Most people would probably use an iPad with a controller software for what it sounds like your looking for.

Fractool is worth checking out

Well the fracpad for the FM9 was more or less a bust for me and had issues the last time I checked. I am still thinking more or less like a guitarist using a real amp and pedal board. Real physical knob control at your fingertips! No IT business there. Still think that this keeps a lot of big time pro's from using this modeler 'Live'. A few do but based on how good the sound is from these Fractal units there should be more.

 

[Nsurround]

I can’t imagine many performance applications for needing a bank of 16 knobs to adjust amp or effect settings while playing…. Then again, I only have two hands and both of them are busy with the guitar lol

I have built little boxes with a few knobs, just expression pots, that can be fun for freak outs with delay repeats and stuff, but still….. that is a bit different than needing to adjust amp parameters on a mic stand while playing guitar

There actually was a rack mounted knob unit a number of years ago, forgot the name, and it never really was all that popular, I think it’s long since discontinued…

Most people would probably use an iPad with a controller software for what it sounds like your looking for.

Fractool is worth checking out

Yeah Behringer produced the B-Control Rotary BCR2000 USB/MIDI Control Surface.
Is no longer produced. Will try the Fracpad again with new software updates.

 

[GlennO]

I am still thinking more or less like a guitarist using a real amp and pedal board. Real physical knob control at your fingertips! No IT business there. Still think that this keeps a lot of big time pro's from using this modeler 'Live'. A few do but based on how good the sound is from these Fractal units there should be more.

I think your complaint is that the Axe-FX doesn't act like an amp from the front panel. I suppose that might make the Axe-FX look intimidating to some guitarists at first glance. However, the 5 performance knobs give you just the right number of knobs to make the Axe-FX act more like a real amp for that use case. More than that and you'd probably run the risk of creating a new kind of intimidation. However, if you really want more than 5, you can use a midi controller. Midi learn makes it pretty easy to set that up with the Axe-FX. If you want more features than that, like a variety of control types and dynamically assigned control labels, a mobile device app like FracPad will always be superior to a hardware midi controller.

 

[Nsurround]

I think your complaint is that the Axe-FX doesn't act like an amp from the front panel. I suppose that might make the Axe-FX look intimidating to some guitarists at first glance. However, the 5 performance knobs give you just the right number of knobs to make the Axe-FX act more like a real amp for that use case. More than that and you'd probably run the risk of creating a new kind of intimidation. However, if you really want more than 5, you can use a midi controller. Midi learn makes it pretty easy to set that up with the Axe-FX. If you want more features than that, like a variety of control types and dynamically assigned control labels, a mobile device app like FracPad will always be superior to a hardware midi controller.

This really is not a complaint but a suggestion. As far as I know the midi learn is more or less for midi switch controllers not for rotary knobs. Rotary knobs would need to be controlled via midi cc# in the SETUP->MIDI/REMOTE->EXTERNAL->External Controller (set to CC#). However as the power user laxu has pointed out in another post:

• You can only map up to 16 controls as external modifiers.
• For mapped controls FM3-Edit or front panel will no longer be able to adjust them whether a MIDI controller is connected or not. To restore this functionality you need to remove these modifiers one by one.
• Only absolute values (0-127) are supported. On controllers with infinite rotaries this sucks because they might not have any indicator for what the current value of each encoder is. With relative values (<64 for down, >64 for up) you could simply increment/decrement saved preset value easily so it works in an intuitive way.

In short the support for external MIDI knob controllers sucks on all current gen Fractal units. In absence of this I'd recommend getting familiar working with the Perform view. It's too limited for anything beyond live use but might still be enough for what you want to tweak quickly.

In order to fix some of the limitations above, Fractal would have to update the system to work out the limitations if possible.

 

[GlennO]

This really is not a complaint but a suggestion. As far as I know the midi learn is more or less for midi switch controllers not for rotary knobs.

No, that's not true. I'm not sure what you might be thinking of.

To solve the parameter editing problem you mentioned, simply turn on PC Reset.

 

[TwinbornAxis]

Not trying to ruffle any feathers but I'm still pretty new to the fractal world and use the computer editor almost exclusively but the few times I've had my FM3 without a computer nearby I've never had any issues being able to find any parameter that needed tweaking within a few seconds. Could some aspects be easier to access with less button presses sure, but I'm very happy with the units current UI capabilities on the device itself.

 

[Nsurround]

This really is not a complaint but a suggestion. As far as I know the midi learn is more or less for midi switch controllers not for rotary knobs. Rotary knobs would need to be controlled via midi cc# in the SETUP->MIDI/REMOTE->EXTERNAL->External Controller (set to CC#). However as the power user laxu has pointed out in another post:

In order to fix some of the limitations above, Fractal would have to update the system to work out the limitations if possible.

With the limitations as per above you can still achieve some external control of various amp and fx block parameters in a preset. An example on how to do this is in the Cooper Carter youtube at -> . However what should be noted is that only absolute mode is supported by fractal and not relative mode in which the value starts at the original preset blocks value and can be changed 'up by 64' or 'down by 64' which is what most persons would want.

 

[Nsurround]

No, that's not true. I'm not sure what you might be thinking of.

To solve the parameter editing problem you mentioned, simply turn on PC Reset.

Yes you are correct and was over thinking how this could all work and fumbled.

 

[laxu]

However what should be noted is that only absolute mode is supported by fractal and not relative mode in which the value starts at the original preset blocks value and can be changed 'up by 64' or 'down by 64' which is what most persons would want.

Another way to do this is if the system can tell the connected MIDI controller that "CC 5 is now at value 23" to track this stuff between preset changes etc but with the sheer number of parameters in Fractal, plus the ability to tie an external controller to multiple values it's not very feasible to do.

Plus many MIDI knob controllers don't support MIDI input in the first place or they might be working via USB which requires another middleman since the Axe-Fx 3 can't act as a USB host.

So in practice the "value up/down" functionality would be the practical way, while removing the blocking that external controllers cause on the mapped parameters. It should just support "last value received" functionality so if you turn a knob in Axe-Edit, front panel or MIDI controller it just adjust to that last value.

To me the last bastion between Fractal devices being as easy to use as pedals is the ability to expand the knob control capabilities so you don't have to do the menu trawling on the front panel or rely on Axe-Edit's virtual controls alone but can use all of that together. A dedicated controller for this would be killer but I'll take better MIDI knob controller integration capabilities as a substitute.

My ideal workflow on the current gen devices would be using Axe-Edit but having a real physical controller I could use to adjust whatever block is currently selected. The system just doesn't support this.

 

[Nsurround]

I would agree with you that a dedicated controller especially for live performances would be killer. Foot switch fractal unit on the floor and dedicated controller at near hand level. Probably never going to happen. However a Fractal or a 3rd party midi knob controller could work just as well with some midi update/changes from Fractal. The Performance Pages can do the job to some extent but where the unit actually is positioned could be limiting. One thing I would like to see on the Performance Pages is, that the knobs abcde would act more like actual amp knobs in their resolution etc.

 

[Nsurround]

Although this is a slightly older thread on the subject I started, I have since come posted this in several forum threads on the same subject:

"Okay, just for fun and laughs here is a representation of my Virtual FM Knob Performance Controller. Its just a basic concept idea. Lots of ways to re-configure depending on what is wanted. Trying to keep it simple as possible but still be useful. After looking at the Fracpad III I could see that the parameter increment values do follow the main FM unit. The encoders could be like the ones on the actual units or something else less incremental. I also realized that the programmable parameters for the preset blocks available is somewhat limited but the main ones are there. But for instance on the reverb block depending on what reverb is chosen there is no ability currently to add the Pre-Delay Time to a preset performance page. Which is something I would think is rather important in the Pre Delay parameters etc. It is important to note that this is not a complete editor per say and the idea follows along the lines of the actual units 'performance pages' but in an external hardware controller. In any case my concept is as below:"