Guys, I need help

get some in ear monitors... dial in at home with them... use your in ears live...

trust your sound guy for the rest ... it sounds like the FOH is not the issue anyways.
 
tallcoolone said:
No. The issue is that with a tube amp compression happens automatically when the volume knob is turned. I'm sure you are technically correct and there is an adjustable parameter that will account for this somewhere in the Fractal GUI. Is it really that difficult to wrap your head around that on stage it is easier to turn a volume knob? Or are you purposely being obtuse?

I will never understand the strange 'loyalty' that some here have with a $2700 black box. It's a tool. Like all tools, it isn't perfect for everyone's situation. When these situations arise there is no need to be offended and rush to protect the honor of the box. Most of you do not use the box live, which means you are not working under the same circumstances that I am.
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With all due respect dude, people are trying to give you advice on what to do and you are discarding the advice saying you basically don't want to learn and understand how the AFX works. Like it or not, the AFX is a complicated piece of gear and it takes time and energy to learn it and learn how to make it do what you want. If you aren't willing to take that time, sell it and go back to your "simple tube amps".
 
Perdikament said:
It's called the Master Volume on the Axe FX just like in a real amp. Also there's another preamp control called Input Drive on the Axe FX which is usually called Volume on an amp.
They work exactly the same, except, if you choose to do so, you can tweak all sorts of parameters within those two main controls on the Advanced menu options, which you cannot do on a real amp.
It has nothing at all to do with "loyalty to a $2500 box" it only has to do with trying to help you & educate you.
I could give a **** less what you choose to play thru & use as your gear.

There's actual science, (physics & biology) at play with the Fletcher Munson Effect.
And I promise you, it's not that abstruse of a concept to grasp.
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Thanks for the input
 
papaflann said:
From Simeon: i usually drop 6db at 8k and 16k and then 2 or 3db at 4k. same on the bottom - drop 32 by 6db, 64 by 2 and maybe some 127 as well, if needed. some pa's are really hyped in the upper mids and have super harsh tweeters. the sound guy should really have is act together and be able to get a decent sound, but as we all know, this is not very often the case...
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Thanks for the helpful input!
 
admgloval said:
With all due respect dude, people are trying to give you advice on what to do and you are discarding the advice saying you basically don't want to learn and understand how the AFX works. Like it or not, the AFX is a complicated piece of gear and it takes time and energy to learn it and learn how to make it do what you want. If you aren't willing to take that time, sell it and go back to your "simple tube amps".
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I am discarding advice that does not take into account the parameters I have already laid out.

There are plenty of people here who are able to get their heads around what I am asking for help on. Papaflann just did a few posts above. It's not that hard to grasp what I am asking. Dude.
 
"The issue is that with a tube amp compression happens automatically when the volume knob is turned. I'm sure you are technically correct and there is an adjustable parameter that will account for this somewhere in the Fractal GUI".

- As Perdikament already said: the master volume parameter on all amp blocks will do this compression the way a real tube amp does (I already specifically tested it, but in my case I use a matrix GT1000 and a pair of mesa boogie mini rectos, don´t know if it works as good on frfr´s)


"Is it really that difficult to wrap your head around that on stage it is easier to turn a volume knob?"

- no, it isn´t. Tube amps are easier to set, but in fact it will take you two or three more steps on the axe to increase master volume on an amp block, so it´s not that difficult too with the axe fx. On the other hand, as you said, you have 200 amps at your disposal, and once you´ve tweaked them, you can change your amp 200 times in a night show (would you take 200 real tube amps and 200 cabs to a stage?).

Can´t you spend some time setting it ? you can ask for help, even paying for it, and have someone set up 200 presets to you (I remember someone asking in this forum for this kind of help in UK: http://forum.fractalaudio.com/threa...k-fancy-some-v-easy-cash.111081/#post-1329701).

Best regards.
 
I think I understand what you are actually looking for. You don't need to understand or care about the "why". You just want to be told how to fix your problem.
Taking that into consideration, I'll cut thru the obvious problem areas such as different room, different speakers, dare I say Fletcher Munson, being "obtuse"etc..etc..
Try simply using the high cut on the Cab Block somewhere between 6k & 8k. Lower if it's still got that fizz.
Easy peasy.

Sincerely,
Metcher Flunson
 
Ok, I'm going to jump in here...

You seem to want to confuse Fletcher Munson effect with compression. These are NOT the same thing.

The FM effect is due to how human hearing works. This is why you have been told repeatedly here that you need to dial in at gig levels.

Our ears hear midrange better. If you dial in at low volumes, you will almost certainly have too much low end and too much high end - because our ears don't detect those frequencies as well at lower volumes.

The best recommendation I can give you as a general solution to your issue based on what you've said is to use the Global EQ when gigging and dial down the low and high frequencies. If you do this once, you will have a good idea of the general "curve" required to compensate.

You are NEVER going to have a tone that works well at low volume that also works well at high volume. If that is what you expect, give up now. This is no different with a tube amp... If you think it is, you are wrong.

Also, you said that you are dismissing the advice that doesn't fit your parameters... But the parameters you've laid out are part of the problem: your primary use case (home use) is quite different from your gig scenario, but you only seem to want to deal with making changes to one.

There are a lot of helpful people here and many will go out of their way to offer advice and input. Dismissing them or being rude to them (and, IMO, you've been rude to a number of folks in this thread) is a good route to getting ignored or getting into a flame war - neither of which does you any good.
 
Umm.... it seems to me, if you like the way your Axe sounds at home and like the way it sounds FOH, then the problem would be how you monitor it on stage. You said that you were using Stagesource as a monitor, how are you using it? Is it just for your guitar, is it full band? How are you positioning the monitor? Is it ear level, on the floor in front of you or behind you, off to the side? I am unfamiliar with Stagesource, but what I googled, some have quite a few eq features. If you have these features, how are they set?
 
tallcoolone said:
I am discarding advice that does not take into account the parameters I have already laid out.

There are plenty of people here who are able to get their heads around what I am asking for help on. Papaflann just did a few posts above. It's not that hard to grasp what I am asking. Dude.
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Sounds more like you are just a lazyass and want shit handed to you on a silver platter. Good luck with that...
 
Perdikament said:
I think I understand what you are actually looking for. You don't need to understand or care about the "why". You just want to be told how to fix your problem.
Taking that into consideration, I'll cut thru the obvious problem areas such as different room, different speakers, dare I say Fletcher Munson, being "obtuse"etc..etc..
Try simply using the high cut on the Cab Block somewhere between 6k & 8k. Lower if it's still got that fizz.
Easy peasy.

Sincerely,
Metcher Flunson
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Yup, that's what I am looking for--thanks Mr Flunson!
 
3xloser said:
Umm.... it seems to me, if you like the way your Axe sounds at home and like the way it sounds FOH, then the problem would be how you monitor it on stage. You said that you were using Stagesource as a monitor, how are you using it? Is it just for your guitar, is it full band? How are you positioning the monitor? Is it ear level, on the floor in front of you or behind you, off to the side? I am unfamiliar with Stagesource, but what I googled, some have quite a few eq features. If you have these features, how are they set?
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Running the AXE direct into it and using it as a reference monitor for me alone--usually on the floor in front of me but occasionally I'll throw it on a pole. The EQ options are nice for acoustic guitar but I found that they added too much noise when used with the AXE. I've had this same issue with three other full range powered PA speakers so I am not thinking this phenomenon is Stagesource related.

I wish I could try out the solutions that folks have already suggested but I am traveling through Sunday. I'm really hoping I now have enough good info to alleviate my problem. Thanks to everyone for the help!
 
Hi tallcoolone,

Ok i was having a similar issue to you and had some help from the cool people here on the forum but I still had to fart around on my own to get where I am happy.

So this is what I do you can try this and see if it helps.

First I use output one for monitors at home I then run output two to a Matrix power amp thats powering Matrix q12s or running out to pa desk.
At home i set my presets and i'm done; live however i need to use an EQ to help the same presets work.

I use the Global Eq Output 2 in the Global Menu (front face of Axefx)

My settings are :

31 & 63hz = -12
125hz = -6
250hz = -1.68
500hz = 0
1khz = 0
2khz = 0
4khz = 0
8khz = -2.80
16khz = -6.30

Now I do tweak this at each live show but its pretty much around there.

Give that a whirl at volume. I hope that helps; I know its frustrating but I was ready to just use the axe at home and forget about live but now im selling most of my original live rig and using the axe.

Rock on :)
 
Sorry, I'm not trying to imply that the Stagesource is the problem. I'm suggesting that the position of it might have something to do with it. If you used to have tube amps positioned behind you, did you have the speakers at ear level? Or did you have it positioned in front of you like the Stagesource? Where you put the speakers makes a difference in how you perceive the tone. I remember with tube amps, if I took five steps to the left or right, it sounded completely different than when I stood in front of it.
Another thing I was going to mention was the same as rustyshed. And if you want, there is always outboard gear, such an eq pedal or rackmount eq. That way it would be easier to access if you need to on the fly.
 
i think the stagesource is exactly the problem. have you played some music through it at decent volume? i think you should try this and see how it sounds. if you play the music through an empty patch on the axe fx, you can use the global eq to correct for any problems you might hear. if you have your studio monitors connected at the same time, you can bounce back and forth to compare (use outs 1 and 2 on the axe fx). use the global eq to make the stagesource as much like your studio monitors as you can. then your patches will translate from one to the other. i did this exact process with my old atomic speakers and it worked a treat. i now use two rcf's which need no correction, because they have a much flatter response.
disclaimer: i haven't read the whole thread, so i apologise if someone has already suggested this
 
simeon said:
i think the stagesource is exactly the problem. have you played some music through it at decent volume? i think you should try this and see how it sounds. if you play the music through an empty patch on the axe fx, you can use the global eq to correct for any problems you might hear. if you have your studio monitors connected at the same time, you can bounce back and forth to compare (use outs 1 and 2 on the axe fx). use the global eq to make the stagesource as much like your studio monitors as you can. then your patches will translate from one to the other. i did this exact process with my old atomic speakers and it worked a treat. i now use two rcf's which need no correction, because they have a much flatter response.
disclaimer: i haven't read the whole thread, so i apologise if someone has already suggested this
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+1. If you get good sound out of the mains (from earlier post - my tone sits well in our mix and actually sounds good through the PA. My issue is what I am hearing on stage, not the audience.) then the problem is in your monitor. Try something other than the stagesource. The sound from your monitors should be really close to what your audience is hearing.
 
bdrepko said:
+1. If you get good sound out of the mains (from earlier post - my tone sits well in our mix and actually sounds good through the PA. My issue is what I am hearing on stage, not the audience.) then the problem is in your monitor. Try something other than the stagesource. The sound from your monitors should be really close to what your audience is hearing.
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From earlier posts by the OP, the premise is:

1. Use a different tone every week.
2. No rehearsals to dial in tone.
3. No knowledge of frequencies, Q or EQ details.
4. No new speakers or monitors.
5. Dial everything in at low volume.
 
barhrecords said:
From earlier posts by the OP, the premise is:

1. Use a different tone every week.
2. No rehearsals to dial in tone.
3. No knowledge of frequencies, Q or EQ details.
4. No new speakers or monitors.
5. Dial everything in at low volume.
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I know. I have never used stagesource monitors, but if it is a totally different sound that the mains with the same signal than you can't blame the Axe FX. It sounds to me like the stagesource speakers may be coloring the sound. I use cheap ALTO 15's at home to adjust my sound for FOH. They sound nearly identical to what the audience hears.
 
bdrepko said:
I know. I have never used stagesource monitors, but if it is a totally different sound that the mains with the same signal than you can't blame the Axe FX. It sounds to me like the stagesource speakers may be coloring the sound. I use cheap ALTO 15's at home to adjust my sound for FOH. They sound nearly identical to what the audience hears.
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Preaching to the choir. I think the conditions of satisfaction are impossible. And I think the OP might already be thinking the same.
 
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