Guthrie Govan With The Axe FX III

Davus PG said:
You mentioned The Beatles - they didn't need to put 10,000 hours in to be able to write and play some of the most popular songs of all time though did they? Lennon & McCartney churned out memorable song after memorable song. Where did that come from? You or I could play the same selection of basic chords, but would we come up with those catchy melodies?

Same with the virtuoso players - there are loads of players on YouTube who have put in the hours and have the chops of Vai, Satriani, Eddie etc but how many of them can write something like For The Love Of God, Flying In A Blue Dream or Eruption?

For me that's where aptitude, gift or whatever you want to call it comes in - what can 2 people with 10,000 of practice under their belts, or the same technical ability do with it? Some will sound like a video game, some will come up with mediocre songs, but some will create beautiful music that millions of people can relate to.

Perhaps when discussing something like music, creativity is a better word than gift?
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Musicality is a learned skill .If someone has speed with precision but no musicality or phrasing they are not a virtuoso and have large gaps in their ability.
Go and watch Get Back, the Beatles worked at music like a hard job and always did. They learned hundreds of cover songs and played them day in day out in the beginning. You learn musicality by studying the work of others . Go and watch Rick Beato's excellent videos on Get Back and also perfect pitch . Who has it, how and why.
 
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Still think a huge amount of that creativity is in fact learnt .. learnt through huge amount of time listening to other music , being immersed in it , in the words of Robert Plant ‘ everyone nicks it from who has gone before ‘
Keith Richards story of how they had to lock him and mick in a room and not let them out until they had written their own songs , how immersed they both were in music from a young age , how it bonded them together , so yes I do believe writing song creativity comes a lot from time used in listening to lots of differant styles , and then having the intelligence to apply it to what u want to put out .. to be honest their is a lot more luck and timing in being a successful song writer I think , didn’t matter what hairs wrote in the 90’s much when grunge hit for example
And yes I think that huge amount of time spent performing with each other like the Beatles did , did in fact create that level of creativity to write great songs
I would write a lot better song today with years of playing and listening than I would of at 19 that’s for sure
 
Justincase said:
Anyone that's ever raised multiple children understands this. Natural aptitude and natural ability ABSOLUTELY exist... physically, mentally, and ESPECIALLY on a creative level. Not everyone is wired or built the same. Some people have natural beauty.
Hard work will make a talented person great. However, if you ain't got it...you just ain't got it and no matter how hard you work at it you will never be great...not saying you won't be proficient eventually. You might even get a participation trophy.
Gary Coleman could never be a pro basketball player
Steve-O will never be able to sing like Steve Perry
Al Sharpton will never be an Albert Einstein


Society has recognized this for thousands of years. It's just the way it is.
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This is mostly wrong.
Aptitude in extreme physical pursuits such as world class sport will make a difference in as much as a pro basket ball player needs to be tall and a singer is stuck with the vocal chords they have.
Application in music trumps this to such a high degree that it is more how can I overcome my physical attributes and succeed anyway.
The human brain is an incredible and "plastic" thing making and reinforcing the connections it needs to accomplish what YOU chose to do.
Every healthy baby teaches itself to speak, walk and be human by observation alone. The virtuoso musicians mealy tap in to that potential at an opportune moment and through effective nurturing realise it.
 
Andy Eagle said:
This is mostly wrong.
Aptitude in extreme physical pursuits such as world class sport will make a difference in as much as a pro basket ball player needs to be tall and a singer is stuck with the vocal chords they have.
Application in music trumps this to such a high degree that it is more how can I overcome my physical attributes and succeed anyway.
The human brain is an incredible and "plastic" thing making and reinforcing the connections it needs to accomplish what YOU chose to do.
Every healthy baby teaches itself to speak, walk and be human by observation alone. The virtuoso musicians mealy tap in to that potential at an opportune moment and through effective nurturing realise it.
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Andy I understand your point and I'm not saying someone doesn't have the ability to be proficient with lots of hard work and dedication. What I'm saying is their are other factors that separate mediocrity from greatness. This is the age old debate of genetics vs environment. I've raised enough kids in an identical environment to understand that genetics play a huge roll. Especially when you watch one child struggle with something identical the other just breezed thru. Same instructor. Same curriculum. We are just going to have to agree to disagree.
 
It’s not one v the other is it , no one is saying that .. gladwell has written about an experiment with the 10k hour rule with a group violinists , took all levels of them , and then asked then the level they wishes to get too , without exception all the ones wanting to be pro orchestra level that put in the 10k got there , those say doing 5k stayed at a lower level etc , so again more proof that regardless of starting point (within reason , I mean a one legged 5 footer isn’t goin to be a top basketball player is he ) people can attain the required / chosen levels with work
Yes some have to put in more some get away with less due to a better starting point agreed , but sometimes the lower the starting point the more passion Simeon has to succeed and prove people wrong , so in itself can be a motivator
The problem I have with a lot of people and indeed the younger generation to an extent nowadays is CBA (cannot be arsed ) , they love the idea of having a skill that needs to be learnt over many years , but would rather just cop out and go watch the next Netflix series , and then go ‘ man I wish I could do that , they are so gifted and talented , they are so lucky, can u pass the popcorn please’
 
I'm coming in at the end of the discussion ..., but if all you got out of "Outliers" is the story about the violinists ..., then maybe you need to go back and re-read it ?

The two instances that I found the most fascinating was the research he did into the NHL and Bill Gates ....
 
No that’s not all I got out of it , it was an example as a case in point discused here .. yes agreed that the bill gates story and indeed NHL one’s are fascinating as well .. particularly though bill story does indeed show how luck and timing helped him massively , but he had the drive and put in the hours to maximise that opportunity which is really the point
 
chris5150 said:
The problem I have with a lot of people and indeed the younger generation to an extent nowadays is CBA (cannot be arsed ) , they love the idea of having a skill that needs to be learnt over many years , but would rather just cop out and go watch the next Netflix series , and then go ‘ man I wish I could do that , they are so gifted and talented , they are so lucky, can u pass the popcorn please’
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This i absolutely agree with. That's why we restrict time on electronics/TV. When I was younger and people would say omg you are so talented I wish I could do that I would always say if I can anyone can cuz I had zero musical ability. I put in 8+ hours a day playing. Hell I'd wake up to go to school and my guitar was on top of me many mornings. It wasn't until I had raised multiple children did I realize how much genetics play a factor on how easily an individual can achieve certain things. It's a trip to have two children, same sex, only a few years apart in age and see how vastly different their natural abilities are.
 
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GG has been using the AXE III on the latest tour. He used a Kemper and then when lockdown came about he thought it was time to dive into learning the III so He started using that. With the Aristocrats he used the Victory MKII V30 with a FX8 but I am not sure if the upcoming tour he will be using that head with some version of an axe 4cm again or the new Victory V4 pedal version. The HZ tour he wanted to respect all the performers by not using a tube amp. It is a good example of how to use all the tools available based on the situation.
 
Justincase said:
This i absolutely agree with. When I was younger and people would say omg you are so talented I wish I could do that I would always say if I can anyone can cuz I had zero musical ability. I put in 8+ hours a day playing. Hell I'd wake up to go to school and my guitar was on top of me many mornings. It wasn't until I had raised multiple children did I realize how much genetics play a factor on how easily an individual can achieve certain things. It's a trip to have two children, same sex, only a few years apart in age and see how vastly different their natural abilities are.
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Yes they might have vastly differant natural abilities to start with , but as a parent I am sure you would say whichever paths they may take they both could make it to whatever level they so wish if they put the effort in , one might have to put in more than the other but that’s life , sometimes the harder the journey up is , the better the final outcome and sense of achievement
 
chris5150 said:
Yes they might have vastly differant natural abilities to start with , but as a parent I am sure you would say whichever paths they may take they both could make it to whatever level they so wish if they put the effort in , one might have to put in more than the other but that’s life , sometimes the harder the journey up is , the better the final outcome and sense of achievement
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Within reason...one will never be a social butterfly and the other will never be a rocket scientist. One took to gymnastics like a fish to water...the other looks like a fish out of water. Lol
Hard work in gymnastics could get the other there...as far as being a rocket scientist? ...well
 
Have 2 kids myself , both have the tools and interlect and phsicality to go wherever they want in life . The big concern I have is work ethic or rather lack of it , that is my concern with them and indeed the younger generation in general , so many distractions etc and social stuff ..
We shall see don’t want to sound like a grumpy old man, but to go full circle that is why we should applaud and show as an example people that put in that effort and work to get to the top , it is dangerous and a cop out to allow others to say ‘oh well I cannot do that because I am not gifted etc’
NO put the work in and u will succeed …
Big life lesson that needs shouting about nowadays not po pooing on
 
chris5150 said:
Have 2 kids myself , both have the tools and interlect and phsicality to go wherever they want in life . The big concern I have is work ethic or rather lack of it , that is my concern with them and indeed the younger generation in general , so many distractions etc and social stuff ..
We shall see don’t want to sound like a grumpy old man, but to go full circle that is why we should applaud and show as an example people that put in that effort and work to get to the top , it is dangerous and a cop out to allow others to say ‘oh well I cannot do that because I am not gifted etc’
NO put the work in and u will succeed …
Big life lesson that needs shouting about nowadays not po pooing on
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I know right....it's crazy how things have changed in what seems like a short time. They expect instant gratification. I guess that's the problem with making things better for the next generation...they tend to take things for granted. Take cheap guitar quality/playability for example... God those cheap series 10 and Hondo guitars back in the day absolutely sucked and we're dreadful to learn on...but we did it. Lol
I just bought my 7yr old an Ibanez Mikro and gave her the katana 100mk2 I had collecting dust. Completely blows away my series 10/crate g40c I started with. Not one dead fret. Had to file a few fret ends and intonate it but damn....I can shred on it. Lol
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Justincase said:
Andy I understand your point and I'm not saying someone doesn't have the ability to be proficient with lots of hard work and dedication. What I'm saying is their are other factors that separate mediocrity from greatness. This is the age old debate of genetics vs environment. I've raised enough kids in an identical environment to understand that genetics play a huge roll. Especially when you watch one child struggle with something identical the other just breezed thru. Same instructor. Same curriculum. We are just going to have to agree to disagree.
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I have kids and have taught guitar to many people over the years. Even in the same environment things are not the same for each participant. The thing that inspires one is not necessarily going to be the same for others. The motivation and other random "luck" factors will be different but that doesn't mean the potential is not there it just requires something different to realise . The thing that makes me laugh is that successful people always underplay "luck" and the unsuccessful always miss out the work ethic part. The truth is large quantities of both is required for world class.
I still think that given the right work ethic that most people can achieve a high standard on the instrument. Ask any well known highly regarded player and they can almost always tell you about the guy around the corner that was always better than they were as kids.
 
Some are gifted with the ability to understand the differences in people, and some aren’t. :)

When immense work meets natural ability (ie: gift), amazing things happen. There’s no discounting hard work, and no one is discrediting anyone’s work to say they are gifted. There’s a perfect storm element to it.

Potential is an odd commodity. Without it, you can do nothing. By itself, it’s worthless.
 
Rick said:
Some are gifted with the ability to understand the differences in people, and some aren’t. :)

When immense work meets natural ability (ie: gift), amazing things happen. There’s no discounting hard work, and no one is discrediting anyone’s work to say they are gifted. There’s a perfect storm element to it.

Potential is an odd commodity. Without it, you can do nothing. By itself, it’s worthless.
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I almost used this exact statement. It is indeed a perfect storm when it all comes together for an individual....those are the guys that are mesmerizing to watch and listen too. My best friend from highschool was miles ahead of me when we started playing guitar. After a couple years I passed him cuz I was absolutely determined and did nothing else in my spare time. However, musicianship as a whole came easy for him. He could always play and sing songs. To this day I cant even talk and play at the same time...but now my playing is light years ahead of his. I miss jamming with him as we did as kids. All he wants to do is play video games in his spare time and it pisses me off. I even hooked him up with a nice MIJ RG for next to nothing to try and get him to play again.
 
Justincase said:
I almost used this exact statement. It is indeed a perfect storm when it all comes together for an individual....those are the guys that are mesmerizing to watch and listen too. My best friend from highschool was miles ahead of me when we started playing guitar. After a couple years I passed him cuz I was absolutely determined and did nothing else in my spare time. However, musicianship as a whole came easy for him. He could always play and sing songs. To this day I cant even talk and play at the same time...but now my playing is light years ahead of his. I miss jamming with him as we did as kids. All he wants to do is play video games in his spare time and it pisses me off. I even hooked him up with a nice MIJ RG for next to nothing to try and get him to play again.
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Exact same thing for me, a mate was a great musical persona at school , spent his life drinking , such a waste , but never applied himself , just a waste nothing else to say , sad , love the guy !
 
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