Guitar volume roll-off with TMA's

steve_k

steve_k

Inspired
What causes the bit of static and loss of clarity when using a TM preset when rolling off the guitar volume knob - especially on a moderate/high gain TM?

Anyone else notice this or am I just dumb and how to correct?


Thanks,
Steve
 
That means the tone match is trying to make up for too much difference between the model and the tone.

You can only morph things so much before they get unrealistic. A simplified version of an amp model is: Input EQ -> Distortion -> Output EQ. Tone matching corrects the Output EQ to equal the reference. If the Input EQ is way off though things will get unrealistic when turning the volume down.

Are you matching a recording or an amp? Matching a recording is tough. You have no idea what was done in post-processing. Matching an amp is a lot easier assuming the same model exists in the Axe-Fx. If the model doesn't exist then you might have to try a few to get the best fit.

When matching an amp that doesn't exist it is highly recommended to shoot an IR first. Then you simply try some models until you get the one that sounds closest. From there it's easy.

Personally I've stopped doing this. I was into the whole amp matching thing for a while but then realized I get much more satisfaction simply picking an amp and a cab and playing. There are so many good IRs now that the whole amp matching thing for me is boring. So many amps are just derivatives of other amps anyways.

Frankly the whole guitar market is a bit of a sham. You're buying frequency response. 99% of what you hear in a guitar product is frequency response. Millions of years of evolution has basically turned our ears into frequency analyzers. People go all gaga over some new amp but in reality it's just a different frequency response. Two months later everyone is selling them and on to the next new thing. "Clean boosts" are my biggest pet peeve. People go "ooooh, the Mocha Boost is sooooo transparent". They're nothing more than a crude, pre-set equalizer. Buy yourself a graphic EQ pedal and dial in your own boost. Learn how the frequencies sound and how they affect the tone and feel. In the Axe-Fx you can craft your own boosts with the plethora of EQ tools available. But I digress....
 
FractalAudio said:
That means the tone match is trying to make up for too much difference between the model and the tone.

You can only morph things so much before they get unrealistic. A simplified version of an amp model is: Input EQ -> Distortion -> Output EQ. Tone matching corrects the Output EQ to equal the reference. If the Input EQ is way off though things will get unrealistic when turning the volume down.

Are you matching a recording or an amp? Matching a recording is tough. You have no idea what was done in post-processing. Matching an amp is a lot easier assuming the same model exists in the Axe-Fx. If the model doesn't exist then you might have to try a few to get the best fit.

When matching an amp that doesn't exist it is highly recommended to shoot an IR first. Then you simply try some models until you get the one that sounds closest. From there it's easy.

Personally I've stopped doing this. I was into the whole amp matching thing for a while but then realized I get much more satisfaction simply picking an amp and a cab and playing. There are so many good IRs now that the whole amp matching thing for me is boring. So many amps are just derivatives of other amps anyways.

Frankly the whole guitar market is a bit of a sham. You're buying frequency response. 99% of what you hear in a guitar product is frequency response. Millions of years of evolution has basically turned our ears into frequency analyzers. People go all gaga over some new amp but in reality it's just a different frequency response. Two months later everyone is selling them and on to the next new thing. "Clean boosts" are my biggest pet peeve. People go "ooooh, the Mocha Boost is sooooo transparent". They're nothing more than a crude, pre-set equalizer. Buy yourself a graphic EQ pedal and dial in your own boost. Learn how the frequencies sound and how they affect the tone and feel. In the Axe-Fx you can craft your own boosts with the plethora of EQ tools available. But I digress....
Click to expand...

I could not agree with you more. IMHO it's the immediacy of the tactile interface which gets people to go cukoo over a new amp. A flashy interface does more for marketing than any genuine improvement, and this isn't limited to the guitar market either. Cars, software (notably, OS's), in fact, probably every industry is subject to the 'bright shiny bead' syndrome. I don't know what the official name for the effect is, but it seems to be a combination of factors. Then a lot of people read back through anecdotal evidence treating anything corroborating as scientifically factual in a Groupthink kind of way, leading to more confusion and a need for people who WILL go against the grain and become devil's advocates.

Acoustics is subject to this in spades, where untrained 'acousticians', instead of relying on theories of energy dispersion and energy dispersion calculations, will treat everything with a shotgun approach when the solution could be a lot simpler and more cost effective. Mind you, this IS an industry where a lot of the psychological theory needed to form a realistic picture of the receiver just isn't there, is incorrect, or needs refinement.

Ok, I'll shut up now. :)
 
Thanks.....matching an amp, not from a recording. But, just wanted to understand the mechanics of why it happened.

Steve



FractalAudio said:
That means the tone match is trying to make up for too much difference between the model and the tone.

You can only morph things so much before they get unrealistic. A simplified version of an amp model is: Input EQ -> Distortion -> Output EQ. Tone matching corrects the Output EQ to equal the reference. If the Input EQ is way off though things will get unrealistic when turning the volume down.

Are you matching a recording or an amp? Matching a recording is tough. You have no idea what was done in post-processing. Matching an amp is a lot easier assuming the same model exists in the Axe-Fx. If the model doesn't exist then you might have to try a few to get the best fit.

When matching an amp that doesn't exist it is highly recommended to shoot an IR first. Then you simply try some models until you get the one that sounds closest. From there it's easy.

Personally I've stopped doing this. I was into the whole amp matching thing for a while but then realized I get much more satisfaction simply picking an amp and a cab and playing. There are so many good IRs now that the whole amp matching thing for me is boring. So many amps are just derivatives of other amps anyways.

Frankly the whole guitar market is a bit of a sham. You're buying frequency response. 99% of what you hear in a guitar product is frequency response. Millions of years of evolution has basically turned our ears into frequency analyzers. People go all gaga over some new amp but in reality it's just a different frequency response. Two months later everyone is selling them and on to the next new thing. "Clean boosts" are my biggest pet peeve. People go "ooooh, the Mocha Boost is sooooo transparent". They're nothing more than a crude, pre-set equalizer. Buy yourself a graphic EQ pedal and dial in your own boost. Learn how the frequencies sound and how they affect the tone and feel. In the Axe-Fx you can craft your own boosts with the plethora of EQ tools available. But I digress....
Click to expand...
 
Not sure what you just said. But, Otay!



BigD1977 said:
I could not agree with you more. IMHO it's the immediacy of the tactile interface which gets people to go cukoo over a new amp. A flashy interface does more for marketing than any genuine improvement, and this isn't limited to the guitar market either. Cars, software (notably, OS's), in fact, probably every industry is subject to the 'bright shiny bead' syndrome. I don't know what the official name for the effect is, but it seems to be a combination of factors. Then a lot of people read back through anecdotal evidence treating anything corroborating as scientifically factual in a Groupthink kind of way, leading to more confusion and a need for people who WILL go against the grain and become devil's advocates.

Acoustics is subject to this in spades, where untrained 'acousticians', instead of relying on theories of energy dispersion and energy dispersion calculations, will treat everything with a shotgun approach when the solution could be a lot simpler and more cost effective. Mind you, this IS an industry where a lot of the psychological theory needed to form a realistic picture of the receiver just isn't there, is incorrect, or needs refinement.

Ok, I'll shut up now. :)
Click to expand...
 
FractalAudio said:
Frankly the whole guitar market is a bit of a sham. You're buying frequency response. 99% of what you hear in a guitar product is frequency response. Millions of years of evolution has basically turned our ears into frequency analyzers. People go all gaga over some new amp but in reality it's just a different frequency response. Two months later everyone is selling them and on to the next new thing. "Clean boosts" are my biggest pet peeve. People go "ooooh, the Mocha Boost is sooooo transparent". They're nothing more than a crude, pre-set equalizer. Buy yourself a graphic EQ pedal and dial in your own boost. Learn how the frequencies sound and how they affect the tone and feel. In the Axe-Fx you can craft your own boosts with the plethora of EQ tools available.
Click to expand...

+1000. This is signature worthy ;)
 
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