Guitar Setup Help Needed

slinky005

slinky005

Power User
Always sent my guitar to a luthier for my setups,
I'm trying to do a simple adjustment on my Les Paul and it ain't happening.

- New Strings.
- Using analog tuner
- Harmonic at 12th fret compared to note on 12th fret
- adjusting saddle so both are the same

All are working except the G string. No matter where the saddle is , it's always off.
For the life of me I can't really see if the neck needs to be tightened or loosened.
I'm eyeballing it according to everything I've read but I just can't really see it.
Is the neck adjustment my problem?
 
If you have the string action too high, the fretted note at the 12th fret will be always sharp.

A bad string can give intonation issues.

Some things to think about:
How far is the fretted note from the harmonic?
Are you sure there are no other things ringing and disturbing the tuner? For example: the string between the 12th fret and the nut, string behind the nut.
Could it be some hum disturbing the tuner?
Did you check the intonation on other frets? It will not be perfect, but how far is it?
 
GiRa said:
If you have the string action too high, the fretted note at the 12th fret will be always sharp.

A bad string can give intonation issues.

Some things to think about:
How far is the fretted note from the harmonic?
Are you sure there are no other things ringing and disturbing the tuner? For example: the string between the 12th fret and the nut, string behind the nut.
Could it be some hum disturbing the tuner?
Did you check the intonation on other frets? It will not be perfect, but how far is it?
Click to expand...

Good advice.

Make sure you have fresh strings. The nut slot could be cut slightly off. Also, I only use the harmonic as an ear check. I use the open string and the 12 fret for setting the intonation. Old school style.
 
For setting intonation, I found a great tip a few years back.

Using the 12th fret harmonic is not very accurate.

Instead, fret (very lightly, make sure you don't "bend" the note by pressing too hard) the highest note possible (21st fret, or higher) and make sure it's in tune.

Comparing the open string to the highest fretted note gives a much better accuracy.

http://www.ibanezrules.com/tech/setup/intonation.htm

EDIT: note that you are comparing the tuning of each fretted note relative to it's expected pitch, not to the open string. For example, on the E string on a 22-fret guitar, the open pitch should be E and the highest fretted note should be D.
 
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GiRa said:
If you have the string action too high, the fretted note at the 12th fret will be always sharp.

A bad string can give intonation issues.

Some things to think about:
How far is the fretted note from the harmonic?
Are you sure there are no other things ringing and disturbing the tuner? For example: the string between the 12th fret and the nut, string behind the nut.
Could it be some hum disturbing the tuner?
Did you check the intonation on other frets? It will not be perfect, but how far is it?
Click to expand...
Intonation on all other strings are good - rules out tuner / interference issues.
 
Intonation on Les Pauls are a difficult task, the bridges can only go so far.

Have you tried changing the string? in my 25 years of setting up guitars i have encounter about 15 new strings that had manufacturing problems and never stayed or hold intonation.

The height of the strings from the 1st frets its also an issue, many times i have to make the nut slots deeper to set great action and intonation on any guitar.
 
Sometimes pickup magnetic pull can cause trouble with setting intonation, usually more in single coils but HB's is not unheard of. Try lowering the pickups while you're intonating.
 
unix-guy said:
For setting intonation, I found a great tip a few years back.

Using the 12th fret harmonic is not very accurate.

Instead, fret (very lightly, make sure you don't "bend" the note by pressing too hard) the highest note possible (21st fret, or higher) and make sure it's in tune.

Comparing the open string to the highest fretted note gives a much better accuracy.

http://www.ibanezrules.com/tech/setup/intonation.htm

EDIT: note that you are comparing the tuning of each fretted note relative to it's expected pitch, not to the open string. For example, on the E string on a 22-fret guitar, the open pitch should be E and the highest fretted note should be D.
Click to expand...

Interesting. So you use the last fret? For ex. Tune open E. Then check D and the octave D on 10 and 22? 24 fret you would tune open E and then check the next 2 octaves at 12 and 24? Adjust based on the higher octave?
 
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unix-guy said:
Instead, fret (very lightly, make sure you don't "bend" the note by pressing too hard) the highest note possible (21st fret, or higher) ...
Click to expand...
Each to his own I suppose...I intonate for how I play...so I play the upper notes like...I play em. :)
I agree though that playing upper notes not harmonics gives better results.
Sometimes depending on the guitar, I like to tune every single note.
Which is crazy of course... ;)
 
Maybe it's your ear too. Mine I know is too sensitive to 'off' strings. The 'G' is like my nemesis in that it NEVER seems quite in tune even when every tuning tool tells me it's spot on.

'Sweetened' tuning did help to a certain extent, but that string will never seem right to me.
 
MSS said:
Interesting. So you use the last fret? For ex. Tune open E. Then check D and the octave D on 10 and 22? 24 fret you would tune open E and then check the next 2 octaves at 12 and 24? Adjust based on the higher octave?
Click to expand...
Check open E, check D at 22nd fret... That's it. The link I posted gives a bit more detail. There's no reason to check the middle when you're checking both "ends".
 
electronpirate said:
Maybe it's your ear too. Mine I know is too sensitive to 'off' strings. The 'G' is like my nemesis in that it NEVER seems quite in tune even when every tuning tool tells me it's spot on.

'Sweetened' tuning did help to a certain extent, but that string will never seem right to me.
Click to expand...
I’ve been sitting on flat wounds for a while now...isn’t this a round wound issue?
I had a luthier in Nashville put one of those fancy staggered nuts on my acoustic...that sounds wrong. :)
Anyway I hated it...I spent years with regular nuts on my guitars and got used to them...god that sounds even worse. :)
 
200man said:
Each to his own I suppose...I intonate for how I play...so I play the upper notes like...I play em. :)
Click to expand...
This.

The usual advice is to fret the string as lightly as possible, but no one plays that way. Fret it as would when you’re actually playing. The string will be better intonated for the way you play.
 
electronpirate said:
Maybe it's your ear too. Mine I know is too sensitive to 'off' strings. The 'G' is like my nemesis in that it NEVER seems quite in tune even when every tuning tool tells me it's spot on.

'Sweetened' tuning did help to a certain extent, but that string will never seem right to me.
Click to expand...
Evil, evil G string. I thought it was just me! It just always sounds a tiny bit flat, or a pinch sharp, even when the strobe says it's perfect. I never have figured out why, and if others have the same issue maybe it's just the way it is.
And it's not on just one guitar...
 
Rex said:
This.

The usual advice is to fret the string as lightly as possible, but no one plays that way. Fret it as would when you’re actually playing. The string will be better intonated for the way you play.
Click to expand...
You are intonating the string length... Intonation is more accurate when the distance from the note to the bridge is accurately measured to pitch. If you apply too much pressure, the string is bent which causes this to be inaccurate.

Since you don't fret the open string, it is not compensated for "how I play"... Because it is always "fretted" the same.

Also, do you fret every note on the E string the same? If not, then I think your results are going to be inconsistent at best.

However, I was just making recommendations based on my experience. If you have a method that works, use it!

Besides, how many people are playing the 22 fret on the low E string, anyway ;)
 
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