Guitar Finish ... Nitro or Poly?

Nitro or Poly?


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Use what you love. To hell with what I or anyone else tells you. It’s your hands, your eyes, your guitar.

But yeah, lots of boutique builders use poly finishes. And it’s not only about hazardous fumes or ease of use. Watch this clip from 6:16 to the end of the video for John Suhr’s take on the question at hand...



I've noticed that in that vid he mentions acrylic paints together with poly as different then nitro. I wonder if the two go together as I do tend to use a lot of acrylic paints in my builds.
 
Use what you love. To hell with what I or anyone else tells you. It’s your hands, your eyes, your guitar.

But yeah, lots of boutique builders use poly finishes. And it’s not only about hazardous fumes or ease of use. Watch this clip from 6:16 to the end of the video for John Suhr’s take on the question at hand...



Interesting comments. I definitely agree about the durability of Poly vs. Nitro.
 
I've noticed that in that vid he mentions acrylic paints together with poly as different then nitro. I wonder if the two go together...

It's my understanding, that Poly can basically go over anything...except of course, Nitro. I've used Rustoleum's Polyurethane, over water-based paint and stains as well as oil-based paints and stains.

In the video, he mentions that the finish is polyester...is that different than polyurethane?
 
In the video, he mentions that the finish is polyester...is that different than polyurethane?
Yes, it’s different. If a guitar isn’t finished in lacquer, it’s almost always polyester, not polyurethane.
 
Yes, it’s different. If a guitar isn’t finished in lacquer, it’s almost always polyester, not polyurethane.

Thanks for the information!

There's also Varathane, by Rustoleum. However, it's just Polyurethane and Varathane is their brand-name for it...like Band-Aid.
 
For me I usually use nitro cellulose sanding primer, then acrylic primer, acrylic paint, decals, and then either several layers of either acrylic gloss coat or nitro gloss coat, sanded down each time until the decals have disappeared into the gloss coat. The only reason I used nitro gloss coat was because it seemed to require less cans and spray sessions then with acrylic. Could I use this same series of finishing, using acrylic gloss coat of course instead of nitro with a final layer of poly? Or would the poly damage the decals?
 
For me I usually use nitro cellulose sanding primer, then acrylic primer, acrylic paint, decals, and then either several layers of either acrylic gloss coat or nitro gloss coat, sanded down each time until the decals have disappeared into the gloss coat. The only reason I used nitro gloss coat was because it seemed to require less cans and spray sessions then with acrylic. Could I use this same series of finishing, using acrylic gloss coat of course instead of nitro with a final layer of poly? Or would the poly damage the decals?
Wish I knew the answer. If the decal is buried, i don't think it could be hurt. Buy I've never mixed nitro and poly. I would think that the poly would interfere with the outgassing of the nitro.
 
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Wish I knew the answer. If the decal is buried, i don't think it could be hurt. Buy I've never mixed nitro and poly. I would think that the poly would interfere with time outgassing of the nitro.

I redid the finish on the headstock of a Strat, using Varathane (Poly) and I had no issues with the decals. I removed most of the old Poly, down to just above the decals and had no issues. Shouldn’t be a problem, Fender must do it.

I agree about not mixing a Nitro and Poly.
 
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I redid the finish on the headstock of a Strat, using Varathane (Poly) and I had no issues with the decals. I removed most of the old Poly, down to just above the decals and had no issues. Shouldn’t be a problem, Fender must do it.

I agree about not mixing a Nitro and Poly.
That's a tricky job. Hard to remove most of the finish but leave the decal.
 
I don't think nitro vs. poly matters much in terms of tone on an electric guitar. The difference is in the way they feel, the way the guitar looks, the finish durability, and how the guitar ages. Also, poly isn't just one thing. There's polyurethane and polyester - and there's a whole variety within those as well.

Nitro ages differently - over time the finish will really sink in. The older polyurethane finishes that weren't too terribly thick would do that too. But the modern polyester finishes are just hard brittle coatings. Nitro feels stickier - even satin finishes sometimes. Polyurethane generally feels pretty good - seldom sticky, particularly satin finishes. Polyester finishes almost always feel like plastic. Nitro and many polyurethane variants may yellow over time. Polyester is going to look like a lollipop for most of eternity.
 
The other option missing from your poll is oil type finishes. I prefer them over nitro or poly - they seldom look as good though. When I do my own parts guitars, I always finish bodies and maple necks with Tru-oil (for gun stocks) from Birchwood Casey. The oil finishes are nowhere near as resilient as nitro or poly but they feel fantastic.
 
Tru-oil is not an oil finish (contrary to its name). It is a wipe-on poly. I have a Tele I finished in Tru-oil. Came out fairly nice, but not any where near as nice as the Nitro finishes I did. I finish all my necks with Tru-oil and they feel great. But not as good as an unfinished roasted maple neck; those feel the best to me.
 
I've noticed that in that vid he mentions acrylic paints together with poly as different then nitro. I wonder if the two go together as I do tend to use a lot of acrylic paints in my builds.

I have used lacquers on builds in the past; but, as easy as that stuff is to apply and polish out, it’s not hard-wearing, there is a lot of shrinkage, and it takes real-time to gas-off.

For the last bag-full of years I have used AU on the bodies and front of the headstock, and a couple of really-thin coats of shellac on the neck – barely enough to just seal the wood. And all more for feeling than anything else.

I don’t personally buy into the whole “paint adds to tone” theory – not in a way that is meaningful anyway, as we are talking about something that is microns in depth. We may as well debate the types of glue used on the drop-top. Yeah, it’ll make a difference.. :0) if we are gonna get technical about it :0) .…But nothing you would hear if you weren’t told there were different glues used between builds.

Same with paint in my estimation. It’s just too thin to do much more than resonate with the wood.

I use Acrylic Urethane – a 2K system, same stuff as they use on cars. It sets-up very-quickly, cures to almost a glass-like finish – I have skated steel drill-chucks off that stuff, not a scratch. Hard as nails. Provides a cool-feeling, super-slick finish, and as near-zero friction on forearm and palm-heel contact as I can get (which I prefer). The very-thin coat of Shellac on the back of the neck is more about sealing the wood - put on very thin, it allows certain physical aspects of the wood to come through – namely, a nice amount of dry friction without it being too grabby – which I like.

Nitro, … Each to their own and all that .. But, in my opinion, it’s a poor quality finish that doesn’t give much in the way of uniform performance. Under some circumstances – it gets sticky – it provides varying amounts of friction (for example). I have heard of people saying that they have left thumb prints on their nitro finishes after sweating all over it in hot weather.

How is that good?

I guess it all comes down to personal preference. But hosing down a piece of wood I would come in contact with? ..living in a hotter climate - I know that Nitro is a cool concept and all that. But, for me, it’s the wrong material for the job.

I have used all kinds of different systems over the years. ..Took a while, but I'm happy with the system I use now.

Everybody has their own preferences though, so I get that some people prefer their nitro .. It’s a different finish that brings different attributes to the party is all. Some prefer it for one reason or another, others do not.

I do think it would be wrong to prefer it, thinking it would be better than any alternative just because "that one guitar builder sez", or "that cool-famous dude swears by it!" - as that cool famous dude is just one person with an opinion is all.. And that guitar builder is singing praises, to some degree, to sell his guitars.

We all have opinions and preferences. We should then make choices based on what we like, not what others might like, or what something is advertised to do by somebody selling that expensive something.

I like a cool feeling super-slick-zero-drag body, and the dry friction of wood on the neck.. Personally. So, no surprise then for my choice of materials when it comes to builds.

..Each to their own, though.
 
Tru-oil is not an oil finish (contrary to its name). It is a wipe-on poly. I have a Tele I finished in Tru-oil. Came out fairly nice, but not any where near as nice as the Nitro finishes I did. I finish all my necks with Tru-oil and they feel great. But not as good as an unfinished roasted maple neck; those feel the best to me.

Tru-oil is made of Linseed oil, a blend of other oils they don't disclose, and solvent. Where does the poly come into play here?
 
Tru-Oil is more of a varnish than polyurethane and not simply an oil finish. Resins are added for a more protective and maintenance free finish than typical oil finishes like linseed oil or Tung oil.
 
Sorry, meant to say a wipe-on varnish. But it is not really a traditional oil finish that just soaks into the wood. Tru-oil creates a hard surface.
 
Here's a neck I'm working on today, it's an oil finish that I've applied in thin layers and have let cure for a couple weeks and now I'm getting it to a nice natural looking finish, trying to make it look just like if there's no finish there at all, when in fact there's several layers of it LOLL

Holding it to a bright light it still looks like natural unfinished wood, and that's something you can't do with nitro or poly very well. It will always look like plastic to some extent and almost always retain too much gloss and 'raised surface'

I too don't believe that guitars have to let the wood 'breathe' - lot of high end guitars have fairly thick finishes and lots more very thin ones, and there's nobody who can identify them in a blind listening test. On acoustics maybe a bit, but for electrics, you are hearing the sound of your cab, amp, pickups, bridge, strings, and electronics more than some millimeters of finish, I guarantee it.

I am a practical guy with no nostalgic reverence for what was how it was done 70 years ago. It's likely that it was cost effective, easy to work, readily available and what was the practice at the time. It's been 70 years and the world and technology have grown, there are A LOT better types of finish that are more durable, better looking, better aging, safer alternatives and better working practices and techniques as well to achieve them.

Pretty sure all the traditionalists are calling for my head right now, but do what works for you. I'm just doing what works best.20191025_133356.jpg
 
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