Wins on stage or in the house?Occasionally I test my backline rigs side by side at band rehearsals: CLR versus power amp + cab, and switch between them while playing. Did so two weeks ago. It's close but power amp + guitar cab still wins.
till 3 years ago I used my Peavy 50/50 Classic tube poweramp with one and sometimes two 412 Marshall cabs and sounded good, also in the mix. As they got to heavy at my age (68) I sold them and got a 212 Marshall cab with 2 Heritage 25W speakers made in England. And with the Peavy into the 212 Marshall box I got lost in the mix. One pub gig I had 1 Matrix q12a as a backup with me and i tried using the Q12 and it did cut through like a knive in the mix. Since than I've gone completly FRFR. I did a few tests now and then with the 212 Marshall cab, but I had gotten so used to my FRFR, I couldn't go back.
Wins on stage or in the house?
What's your impression of the difference in the house?On stage. Regardless of my stage setup, I always send a direct signal to FOH, no microphones.
...But for backline amplification (full band rehearsals, small venues without PA), I definitively prefer a regular guitar cabinet. And I have to say, not messing with IRs keeps things easier.
This is a very interesting topic for me. I use my Axe FX II quite a bit for cover band gigs where I monitor through my vocal wedge but recognize it as a compromise. It sounds great for direct to PA and recording (using cab and mic simulation). I also use it often for effects only with my "real" amps. That said, I've never been able to get an "in the room" tone that I'm satisfied with from FRFR. Even with a power amp into guitar cabs (I've mostly used my Mosvalve power amp but have tried others) I always end up preferring a real amp. Probably the best "in the room" tone I've been able to get is with the loop in of one of my tube amps. I'd be interested in hearing any additional tips for use with guitar cabs. FWIW, my Axe is up to date (Quantum 7) and I like classic rock tones from clean to crunch. I'm comparing to a variety of amps I own including vintage Marshall, Fender and clones....But I do notice and feel it when playing.
Enough to keep me using the cab.
@andyp13 Yes you can call me that - Black Bitch is the name of my Black Les Paul which sounds quite nasty. With tghe Q12 you have to watch out for the bass at gig volume. But this preset is made loud at gig volume.
EDIT: here is a clip from last week and played with fw Rev 7.02 and my beloved Black Bitch
Well now, not every single recording studio used 4311's. I should know as I worked in a few of them in the late 70's and early 80's in LA. I actually owned a set of 4311's during that time period. They were thought to not color the sound that much. But more to the point, studio's needed a standard to mix by. Many also chose Yamaha NS 10s to standardize a bookshelf type speaker (sitting on the console shelf) which definitely was not a neutral sounding speaker. In any case, I did not suggest to use cab IR sims with a guitar type cab and speaker. There really is no such thing as a true FRFR speaker in a 'cab'. I have tried a few and they are all different sounding depending on various factors such as what cabinet it is in and its resonate frequencies etc. Essentially it can become another rabbit hole to chase down depending on what you are going for. With that being said I own two FRFR type systems. One more of a studio monitor type and the other a single mono cabinet type. They sound fairly different on the same preset with the same IR cabs. You can over come some of this by tweaking various properties within the fractal unit. The main point I was trying to make was that if you have been playing a real amp and guitar cab for some time that you like and then switch to a fractal unit, you might be better off using the same cab/speaker with the cab IRs switched off to get the tone's closer to what you might be used too and like. Nothing particularly wrong with going FRFR but it has its own set of challenges.I respectfully disagree.
It's a very good starting point, certainly a lot better than putting in a totally colored cab, where you can tweak for months and still not get something close to what you're looking for....
I agree that not all FRFRs will sound the same; it's not even close to possible, but they will be close enough that you can build on it. And IR's are not designed to go on colored cabs; It defeats the whole purpose of cab SIM's.
To get as close as possible to the desired cab sim, you need to start with a neutral speaker, and an FRFR is as close to neutral as you're going to get.
It's why recording studios use studio monitors. They were created for a reason.
They don't use hi-fi speakers in recording studios because they're totally colored and don't give you a true, accurate picture of what's going on. A true FRFR would be the same as a true studio monitor, with as little coloration as possible, so you get the full benefit of a cab sim.
There was a reason that every single recording studio used to use JBL 4311's. And there's a reason why you are supposed to use an FRFR with a cab sim.
I think we agree more than not. As I said before I have two FRFR setups with an FM9. One stereo type and one mono. Love the versatility of changing tones. With that being said, kind of miss the tube combo amps like the Princeton Reverb etc. Less fiddling more playing and getting the tone with my fingers as much as possible. Play mostly clean with a little crunch. Dumped most of my pedals except a few. For me, the biggest obstacle and headache in going the Fractal route was choosing the playback system. From what I read on these posts it is also subject to a lot of discussion. I wonder where those 4311's I had went . . . . . . ?Right...I agree that not all FRFR's will sound the same. Your suggestion about playing through the guitars cabs, I agree as well...if you're willing to stick with what that cab delivers and if you're willing to buy something like a Matrix amp to go with that. Been there done that... Moved to FRFR's.... I like the versatility.
Personally, I like the powered FRFR's with a cab SIM. I can switch from Marshall to Recto cab based presets easily! Those are the two I use most frequently; we just don't have that flexibility when using a real guitar cab.
Probably where they belong.Lol... The Smithsonian is where they are!