Guide: Re-Amping with external sound card/audio interface

Hey guys. If nobody is going to say that aggregate devices are awesome, I am probably sticking with the SPDIF way. So, I basically narrowed the specs I need for an interface to be also able to reamp via SPDIF as follows.
Must have:
  • 48kHz/24bit
  • stable Windows7 drivers
  • SPDIF in + SPDIF out known to work simultaneously (to send Dry signal to AxeFx and Wet Signal back)
  • 2 analogue inputs mostly for direct monitoring and recording of "reference wet signal".
    Since it is only for reference, the inputs do not have to be of very high quality. Therefore, it can be balanced XLR (preferred) or unbalanced TS (satisfying).
  • 2 balanced analogue outputs (XLR or TRS) to active studio monitors
  • stereo direct monitoring (the opportunity to "wire" the input signal directly to outputs)
  • 1 headphones out which does not have to push much since I am using low impedance headphones
  • separate volume knobs for monitors and headphones, such that I could turn down monitors while tracking in headphones without the need to switch the first ones off physically
  • external power to be able to use the interface standalone, without computer, simply with AxeFx and monitors connected.
  • Price below 300$

Nice to have:
  • on/off physical switch
  • physical mix knob / blend control (like the one on 2i4) which allows to adjust the volume of the mix relatively to the guitar input
  • physical peak meters for analogue inputs (as opposed to software ones or a single CLIP LED)
  • mono switch for direct monitoring (not yet sure what for :D but certanly could be a nice feature to have)
  • some GUI mixer to allow for functions I mentioned but which have no physical controls.
Any suggestions? :)
 
The Focusrite 18i20 is seamless using Pro Tools 11. I thought I was going to have to update Pro Tools but all I had to do was install the latest Driver for the 18i20. S/PDIF Re-amping is completely painless! Also, aggregated the Axe-FX & Focusrite so I could have access to ALL inputs simultaneously (Was re-amping via axe-fx USB) however this caused issues in pro tools and some weird popping...later realized I could just re-amp via S/PDIF and use the ONLY the Focusrite as my I/O for Pro Tools.
 
actionjackson12 said:
The Focusrite 18i20 is seamless using Pro Tools 11. I thought I was going to have to update Pro Tools but all I had to do was install the latest Driver for the 18i20. S/PDIF Re-amping is completely painless! Also, aggregated the Axe-FX & Focusrite so I could have access to ALL inputs simultaneously (Was re-amping via axe-fx USB) however this caused issues in pro tools and some weird popping...later realized I could just re-amp via S/PDIF and use the ONLY the Focusrite as my I/O for Pro Tools.
Click to expand...
Nice.
If anyone was looking for something like me, I decided to go with Focusrite 6i6 2nd gen. Alternatives were Steinberg UR28M (is more expensive, and does much more than I need), Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 (does not work standalone, even with external USB power), and finally slightly cheaper Behringer FCA610 (although it has this nice "blend" knob, its headphones level depends on master volume, so you cannot turn monitors off and listen just in headphones, also there seem to be some driver troubles as well which people reported). The only thing about 6i6 is that it does not have this mix knob for direct monitoring level, although 2i4 has it, so I believe it must be somewhere in the software mixer GUI, and it is only useful when computer is on anyways. I hope I made the right choice :)
About ASIO4ALL I have also realized that sometimes it put my CPU usage on 100% eventhough I literally did not run anything, and it also crashed some Windows system settings under audio, so I decided to deinstall it, stay away from this unstable stuff, and go for S/PDIF :)
 
I've been reamping stuff since forever and it's always been a PITA for one reason or another... Ground loops, latency, etc...
Years ago when I got Eleven Rack while using my original Ultra I was super excited about the re-amp feature. But there too were latency issues I had to manually compensate for.

Fast forward the AxeFx2... When I use it together with the Motu 896HD as aggregate device and use the Aes digital in all good. Except after about 10 minutes they weird clock sync goes awry, even though I have the Motu digi in set to sample rate convert.

With the added a UAD Apollo, started from scratch... Again latency issues.
So finally figured the solution.

In Cubase, or PT I create an External FX plug in. (Go to your in/out assignment to add).

Now one can use any input whether that's the Axe front in, or the UAD hi-z etc...
And run the Axe as a plug to monitor.

The plug pings through the hardware and c reports latency. The bounced audio nulls with the track running DI with axe as plug...BUT since it's compensating for already existing latency its still not quite right.
What I see is the wave form about 2 msec earlier than what it should be. So I change that in the plugin and voilà finally it's sorted.
What's even cooler it works when I see the axe as reamp box for miked amps.

Side note each drive block seems to add about two msec of additional latency. After compensating I was looking at 8 to 12msec, reported between 10 and 14.

Now on a single track that's fine but running in parallel it's gonna combfilter.
 
khvMX said:
Nice.
If anyone was looking for something like me, I decided to go with Focusrite 6i6 2nd gen. Alternatives were Steinberg UR28M (is more expensive, and does much more than I need), Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 (does not work standalone, even with external USB power), and finally slightly cheaper Behringer FCA610 (although it has this nice "blend" knob, its headphones level depends on master volume, so you cannot turn monitors off and listen just in headphones, also there seem to be some driver troubles as well which people reported). The only thing about 6i6 is that it does not have this mix knob for direct monitoring level, although 2i4 has it, so I believe it must be somewhere in the software mixer GUI, and it is only useful when computer is on anyways. I hope I made the right choice :)
About ASIO4ALL I have also realized that sometimes it put my CPU usage on 100% eventhough I literally did not run anything, and it also crashed some Windows system settings under audio, so I decided to deinstall it, stay away from this unstable stuff, and go for S/PDIF :)
Click to expand...

hello I am using the Komplete Audio 6. what do you mean by "(does not work standalone, even with external USB power"
 
shasha said:
I've been working on this the last few days through PM with forum member rm60 and while it may need some refinement, I figured that it was good enough to post at this point. Basically its how I do it and it works....that doesn't mean that I left something out. :)

Now the reason that I'm doing this is because since Cliff added the ability to sync to external digital clocks this is a much easier process and is accessible to a lot more people who may have had clock jitter issues before. The biggest challenge with using an external sound card is that using anything other than digital for the dry signal in my experience has led to noise because the dry signal is so low that there just isn't enough SNR to keep from picking up hum. Basically when I would re-amp all analog you could hear a distinct difference using the same patch. This way uses digital for the dry guitar signal path and analog for the fully effected wet recording. And it works fantastic; you can't hear a difference.

The reason that this is a good idea? Because I can leave my monitors connected to the computer's sound card which has a lot more inputs and features then the AxeFXII's onboard USB sound card (which does work very well, but is only for the AxeFXII to record).

So rather than type up the process I figured that pictures and instructions would work: (updated link)

.

Any suggestions are welcome.

UPDATE: Added an animated GIF to show the basic steps in Reaper.

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z4/ashasha3/Re-Amping_1_zpstphrxwul.gif
Click to expand...

Does This method fix the low input signal to Logic X? I'm running my Axe II XL+ into an Apollo 8, then to Logic. The input signal in Logic never gets better than about -12dB, and the waveform is always anemic. I have played with the output signal on the Axe, but since my settings are already at unity gain or slightly higher (peaks), I end up clipping the Axe's output if I try to raise the block's output, or use the global EQ to push the signal.
 
CactusTone said:
Does This method fix the low input signal to Logic X? I'm running my Axe II XL+ into an Apollo 8, then to Logic. The input signal in Logic never gets better than about -12dB, and the waveform is always anemic. I have played with the output signal on the Axe, but since my settings are already at unity gain or slightly higher (peaks), I end up clipping the Axe's output if I try to raise the block's output, or use the global EQ to push the signal.
Click to expand...

Which signal: DI or processed? What type of connection are you using to record it?

It's normal for digital DI level to be pretty low for many guitars. I'm not sure if that answers the question you're asking.
 
Bakerman said:
Which signal: DI or processed? What type of connection are you using to record it?

It's normal for digital DI level to be pretty low for many guitars. I'm not sure if that answers the question you're asking.
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Processed. I'm using XLR Out L to the Apollo. Ideas? Thanks!
 
What's the Out 1 Boost/Pad value? (Axe I/O menu) Higher values will cause clipping from lower grid levels, and limit the maximum analog out level.

I would try a 1/4" cable from Output 1 to one of the interface's line inputs.

The OP's reamping setup wouldn't change/improve anything related to this, FYI.
 
Bakerman said:
What's the Out 1 Boost/Pad value? (Axe I/O menu) Higher values will cause clipping from lower grid levels, and limit the maximum analog out level.

I would try a 1/4" cable from Output 1 to one of the interface's line inputs.

The OP's reamping setup wouldn't change/improve anything related to this, FYI.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply! The Out 1 Boost/Pad is set to 0dB. I'm using XLR to 1/4" balanced into the Apollo 8's Line Input. Ideas? I'm tempted to try using some preamp gain from the Apollo, but am reluctant because it will most certainly color the sound.
 
CactusTone said:
Thanks for the reply! The Out 1 Boost/Pad is set to 0dB. I'm using XLR to 1/4" balanced into the Apollo 8's Line Input. Ideas? I'm tempted to try using some preamp gain from the Apollo, but am reluctant because it will most certainly color the sound.
Click to expand...

It looks like the Apollo line inputs have two gain settings. Did you try switching that to see if the recorded level changes?
 
Bakerman said:
It looks like the Apollo line inputs have two gain settings. Did you try switching that to see if the recorded level changes?
Click to expand...
Meant to say +4dB or Bypass in my previous post! So, I had it at +4dB with the preamp gain all the way down. To get the "purest" signal to the convertors I set the pre to "Bypass." no difference in gain. Apollo's input meters are still hovering around -15dB, with occasional peaks at -12dB.
 
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