Wish Grey out amp parameters that aren't applicable

[guitarnerdswe]

The recent JC120 thread is the inspiration for this.

It would be very handy if amp parameters that don't do anything, were simply greyed out so that users know that they don't do anything on the current amp model. It would probably make tweaking advanced amp parameters have a lower "knowledge floor", for users who don't know the real amps inside out. Having the same thing happen in the editor would be preferable.

Examples: The tube parameters on the JC120 amp model, or cathode follower parameters on amps that don't have cathode followers etc.

It could also be dynamic, if there is a feasible way to make it happen. For instance, if sag gets turned to zero, then all the power amp parameters that no longer work would be greyed out.

Of course, this functionality could be extended to other blocks than the amp block, but I think the amp block is the one where the benefit would be most noticeable.

 

[yek]

That would limit functionality. Even if a modeled amp doesn’t have a cathode follower, the user can still enable it In the model using those params. Modeling goes beyond authenticity. Same applies to Drive blocks etc.

 

[dr bonkers]

Perhaps a more desirable wish would be to label the JC-120 more accurately.

Since it has no tubes, a new pull down menu selection should be solid state in the preamp tube and power amp tube parameters.

Then those JC-120 behaviors could be selected in other amp types to create even more hybrid amps more easily.

 

[guitarnerdswe]

That would limit functionality. Even if a modeled amp doesn’t have a cathode follower, the user can still enable it In the model using those params. Modeling goes beyond authenticity. Same applies to Drive blocks etc.

That's where the dynamic feature would come in. Select an amp without a cathode follower, those parameters are greyed out. Tweak so that it has one, those parameters become white again.

 

[yek]

That goes against logic. The parameter would be greyed out, indicating: not in use, but you can still adjust and then it becomes white ...

Example being the Cathode Comp parameter.

 

[bradlake]

-1

 

[guitarnerdswe]

That goes against logic. The parameter would be greyed out, indicating: not in use, but you can still adjust and then it becomes white ...

Example being the Cathode Comp parameter.

I only started this wish thread after it seemed there was a demand for this in the JC120 thread. I started it not for myself, but because it might help other people. If somebody can formulate a better way to do this wish, I'm all ears

 

[IronSean]

@yek can you add tubes to the JC120 using advanced paramaters? Can it have a cathode follower added?

I'm not sure it's such a problem that you're twisting knobs that have no affect, then when you enable them they do have an effect. The same happens right now. You can twist Cathode Comp all you want and hear nothing, then when you enable the Cathode Follower suddenly those twists will be affecting your tone. The only different is right now you have no indication that your knob twisting wasn't doing anything before and is now.

 

[lqdsnddist]

I’d say it’s likely a very small minority who actually would care about such things, and for those who do care, they probably have the knowledge to know what they are or aren’t adjusting.

everyone else probably just thinks “jc120” is a great amp for cleans and have no idea if it’s tube or SS etc, they just like how it sounds

we tend to preach to choir on these forums, but have to remember that for each one of us there are probably hundreds of guys who just play the thing and don’t debate it lol

 

[IronSean]

I’d say it’s likely a very small minority who actually would care about such things, and for those who do care, they probably have the knowledge to know what they are or aren’t adjusting.

everyone else probably just thinks “jc120” is a great amp for cleans and have no idea if it’s tube or SS etc, they just like how it sounds

we tend to preach to choir on these forums, but have to remember that for each one of us there are probably hundreds of guys who just play the thing and don’t debate it lol

I feel like you've got it backwards.

The majority who just know it sounds good and don't know if it's tube or SS are also the ones who might dive into the advanced parameters and spend an hour trying to figure out which tube type sounds best without realizing that setting is having no affect at all. They're exactly the sort of user who would most benefit from a visual indication that a control is not currently going to have any effect.

 

[IronSean]

But the problem I see with this wish is if there isn't a really clever way to implicitly determine which knobs are and aren't currently having an effect it ends up being a lot of complicated conditional logic based on the underlying models that has to be kept in sync with the models themselves. Like writing documentation, it's sometimes necessary, but takes time away from doing actual work because you're duplicating some effort in the disconnected other place, and becomes a problem when it drifts out of sync and actually leads users astray.

 

[lqdsnddist]

I feel like you've got it backwards.

The majority who just know it sounds good and don't know if it's tube or SS are also the ones who might dive into the advanced parameters and spend an hour trying to figure out which tube type sounds best without realizing that setting is having no affect at all. They're exactly the sort of user who would most benefit from a visual indication that a control is not currently going to have any effect.

guess it’s a question of how many casual users dig into the advanced parameters for any amp?

heck, I spend a few waking hours a day on this forum and would consider myself more knowledgeable than most, but even I don’t mess with a lot of that stuff, because you really need to be an amp tech or EE to grasp what some of it is doing.

as such, I can’t see to many folks digging that deep. It’s like a video gamer wanting to edit lines of code..... most just play the games, don’t want be become coders though

 

[Dave Merrill]

I voted yes, but only if...

- Greyed out means it actually has no effect on the model, not that it wouldn't in the original amp. For instance, if you really can change the power amp section of the Axe's JC120 to tubes, then tube choice matters and should be available. If you can't, then the options that don't apply to a solid state output section should be greyed out.

- It's easy to implement, since I think it's not that important. Generally speaking though, any UI should make itself clear, which includes hiding or disabling controls that don't currently apply.

 

[Dave Merrill]

Just to say it, while I've done some electronic design and build back in the day, there are a lot of advanced tube amp parameters I don't know about. I still tweak them sometimes in the Axe, by how it sounds.

 

[IronSean]

It's really easy to trick yourself with the placebo effect too. I know I can't be the only one who kept switching back and fourth between an IR. Playing a little bit each time trying to decide which was better. Only to realize that a different IR was solo'd the whole time. When some of these knobs are subtler you might be tweaking them and not sure if you're hearing anything or not. Sometimes it helps to have a visual indication that "No, dummy, that knob isn't having any effect"

 

[jefferski]

Greyed out means it actually has no effect on the model, not that it wouldn't in the original amp. For instance, if you really can change the power amp section of the Axe's JC120 to tubes, then tube choice matters and should be available. If you can't, then the options that don't apply to a solid state output section should be greyed out.

I voted no but could agree w/ greying it out, only if it actually has NO effect. If changing the tubes creates a difference in sound or feel, then it should remain. Because who knows, a Jazz Chorus w/ a KT88 could be a glorious thing! ;-)

 

[Dave Merrill]

I voted no but could agree w/ greying it out, only if it actually has NO effect. If changing the tubes creates a difference in sound or feel, then it should remain. Because who knows, a Jazz Chorus w/ a KT88 could be a glorious thing! ;-)

Agree, it could be.

But if it doesn't do anything, save me the time and internal humiliation of messing with it, like @IronSean is getting at

 

[rossipedia]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding this, but what I want is for parameters that literally do nothing to be greyed out/unavailable. If it affects the sound in any way, it shouldn't be disabled.